Quick question for people who are better at this than me:
What's the deal with honest meta again? Is it considered OGI if someone has a meta that they stick to and is known by the community / tables a person plays with? (IE "I always and only say "town here" as town", or "I only pinky swear if I'm town").
I don't remember any of the past verdicts on this.
If honest meta is OGI, then like half of the Comp Lobby would / should have NUMEROUS vios for it. :P
deletedover 10 years
because I feel like I had a pretty big part in the origins of this rule I'll give what I remember about it. Please note I havent read this thread.
At some point it was you can't have "I always tell the truth" in your profile, because that was ogi. But I also thinkit later became that you can't only tell the truth so much that it's 100% accepted within the community. Both of those would be ogi.
Telling someone you only tell the truth in a random game if you have no past history of only telling the truth is not ogi, but that may have changed.
It's situational, as with Iwillneverlie or w/e we gave GT because they wouldn't say they were town if they were scum. Honest meta can play against your win condition ie GT. It's really more OGI for the people that abuse it (of course I wouldn't really go too far to vio it unless it's their partner in honest meta abuse or something).
It's as much OGI for the person using it as Cheating is OGI imo.
Honest Meta is basically OGI because of the core defintion of OGI - it comes from outside (not the recent, but previous games), and it influences the game (someone non-clear becomes clear automatically, or a mafia gets confirmed). Because of the huge influence, there is a point in debating making it cheating, but imo that would be way too severe in most cases (not talking about troll honest meta alts, but taking Pina's case for example).
There isn't really a point of making it a separate violation since the intent behind it so different, it should be under moderator judgement. I could imagine it varzing from OGI to Trolling to Cheating, depending on the severity and what the player seemingly wanted to achieve.
Honest meta have been against the rules for a long time
deletedover 10 years
Yeah, there needs to be a rule in which every ranked game is anonymous and everyone has to type using pre-canned messages ala those "parental control" features you see on some gaming websites. They'd be pretty versatile, though, like "X is mafia" and stuff like that. I think this is the best way to really fix ranked games and eliminate all of the evil meta.
any other meta like -- someone hit bp this time-- this player would have hit the oracle instead- is something you learn from experience and it is not a sure thing. it is meta on strategy. it is not ogi at all. it tells you how a player plays. that meta is a part of the game and is allowed. even when someone says that he will always hit the bp. it is a strategic move and player tries to justify that he wouldnt do otherwise because it does not suit him. that isnt ogi.
honest meta such as -- if i say "im town" then i am always town because i never say it as mafia, is as good as cheating. it has been given a vio with refund in the past.
Four years is plenty of experience, I think. I know meta helps, but abusing it certainly isn't the way this should work. It makes the game too easy to tip to a side.
Well, it is, because people are going to abuse it like crazy when they have the same players to keep playing with over and over again. You can't deny the fact that when you're running your 5 hearts, 7 times out of 10 you'll be with most of the same people for all 5 of them. Meta will be used repeatedly, which is frowned upon last I checked.
i got 2 ogi vios for this thing even though the meta was not honest. it is ogi because it cripples the other team based on something that is not done in the game. if someone has an honest meta you give a vio. roshiez was a dumb mod and the admin let her do it.
