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ban guns from competitive games

deletedover 10 years

people are using the same mentality for shooting a gun as lynching, it's absolutely impossible to make a competitively viable setup with guns, they promote trolling and gamethrowing, the power to instantly remove one person from the game is overbearing and this community can't handle it. furthermore, remove deputy, sniper and gunsmith from competitive lobby and training lobby. part of the problem is guns cause games to become trollish, fast-paced and lower effort which has leaked onto other games, guns probably should be banned from competitive lobby yes, guns are slowly killing competitive lobby. and by slowly, i mean someone get nikki on the phone and tell him to ban guns from competitive lobby. guns are becoming the new lynch, that'st he problem with most new setups. lynching is only ever for lylos now, and equivalent to set in stone absolutes, rather than placeholders for FOSes and reactions. it also encourages a chain of command that makes reading harder, hence why most gun setups end up being scumsided. not only do you run the risk of a *** pr, you also lose any valuable voting process and instead get SHOOT KYLE LOL a bunch. by replacing lynching for a ML with guns, you effectively neuter most competent setups and ruin any form of methodical strategy that could be employed.

guns shouldnt be in comp lobby.. plain and simple, they are either game breaking for town and make easy wins out of nothing or they give mafia a free win because the person with gun shoots. also , theres an entire rule dedicated to hipfiring with guns. guns give people an excuse to grudge lynch people without being able to be opposed. if youre pr with gun you have full control no matter how much town objects, which is just silly.

setup the best setup is what more setups should look like. both PRs shoudl optimally hide instead of claiming , PR claim d1 is the only bad thing about VDLI. if one of the power roles was squishy instead of hard to kill (doc is "squishy, bp is "hard to kill", etc") then it would be great , imo.

and i remember when people actually LIKED playing those scumhunt based setups,. they preferred it to gimmick ones. regardless of whether anyone thinks overall play is worse or better, the attitude people have towards scumhunt setups or scumhunting in general is worse now, which makes overall play worse as a result.

pranay7744
over 10 years
And if you want to challenge people at pure mafia setups, then you can do that too. If we have a particular theme, then you can check your performance compared to everybody else.
pranay7744
over 10 years
Then play the pure mafia games. There are plenty. I would love to beat you at that.
Hibiki
over 10 years
no. i understand that this site is beyond mafia. but i prefer not being beyond mafia because i find mafia more appealing than not mafia and perform better in mafia than beyond mafia
pranay7744
over 10 years
You not being good at setups with guns means you are not the best. I am good with every thing. I just dont want to work that hard so I prefer setups that give me more power. I can work without power too. It is child's play for me. Working hard is something I chose not to do. If I can win without towntelling then I would do that. I bank on my other skills.
pranay7744
over 10 years
you are stupid too. You do not understand that mafia is not just about the basic game. It is also about the various other aspects. If you ban guns you restrict people from playing it who like it. You can play what you like. You can have special rounds for yourself. Also I am the best player of every setup. So I dont need guns to win games. I can adapt to no reveal too if I focus. All I need to do in no reveal games is to be nice to everybody and towntell. I can towntell whenever I want.
Hibiki
over 10 years
i would prefer guns to be banned. it would benefit me personally. but it's not right for comp
pranay7744
over 10 years
You being paranoid that it is for my personal benefit, and being sad about it that it might benefit me personally, means that you are thinking about your personal benefit. Or rather you are not even thinking of anything and just thinking about me not getting what I want.

Also there is a personal benefit for me in everything you do. There is no stopping me.

Also there is nothing bad in fighting for personal benefit. My benefit coincides with many.
Hibiki
over 10 years
pranay your opinion is invalid because you're arguing for your own personal benefit, even if i agree with a lot of it
pranay7744
over 10 years
I think someone shot kyle in a game and he wanted to ban guns.

I have been shot more than anybody else. I never complained about it.
pranay7744
over 10 years
well i agree that people should comp setups without guns in some rounds, because we want variety. If we do not force them to and just pass it on as a guideline, then they wont mind. Winners should have the privilege of comping setups they want, because they won. So if they happen to be in a special round, they might feel bad. So do not force special rounds. Just pass it on as a guideline. Lucid introduced this concept of winners comping setups, because he did not want mods to chose setups we can comp. Winners win on setups comped by someone else. They know what they are comping. Just tell them that the theme is "mylo" or "gun" or "no gun" or "new role" or any theme.

For example we can decide upon several themes. Each round the discussion thread can mention the theme. In my opinion the themes could be.

1- No guns

2- All new setups ( should go through pointfarm and other tests to verify whether they are broken or not)

3- No reveal

4- Un counter claimable prs

5- No uncounter claimable prs

6- at least one gun setup by each winner

7- Multi setups

8- Anything can happen round

9- No cops

10- No docs

11- No mls

12- Day start only

13- Dawn start only

All these are just my proposals. The community should decide upon themes. This will give people variety. Most themes have scope for other setups too. Some themes are limited.

The good thing about this thread is that we can determine themes for rounds. Winners should be encouraged to follow the theme. If you mention the theme, they will automatically follow it. You can mention the theme for the round 202 in round 201. So the winners know in advance what they can comp.
Hibiki
over 10 years
so i read the whole thread and the only people i agree with are pranay and peta
deletedover 10 years
nah, even if you really want to do this i suggest going along with peta's idea which was to not allow setups involving guns every 2 or 3 rounds, but i'm sure the interest of the players moving or those who've recently moved into competitive from training will decrease and whatever little popularity comp has will decrease even further. I don't think putting restrictions onto competitive setups right now is a good idea
deletedover 10 years
important issue please sign https://epicmafia.com/topic/62521
Mike
over 10 years

SquirtleSquad says


pranay7744 says

@squirtle-- gun smith gunning a random person is a situation you should learn to deal with while playing that setup. you dont encounter that in other setups. what is bad about a little bit of uncertainity?


I explained why it's bad and you're *** stupid.


You know what other role needs to be banned? Janitor.

Sometimes that pesky rascal kill power roles and claims them and town doesn't deal with the mechanics of the role and lose the game. That's unfair and clearly uncompetitive.
Mike
over 10 years

Connor says

query: are moderators charged with keeping conpetitive lobby competitive?


Have they banned you and Kerri from it?
Mike
over 10 years

thebrontosaurus says

and yeah, from my understanding the self-vote meta stemmed from Gallis Hunter?

It's separate than the problems with guns, but it's easy to group the two problems together imo.


You're missing the part where gallis hunter was only popular in an era where ml's were used to sacrifice blues in order to force mafia to cc prs.

Self voting popularity stims for anti town blues and the over involvement of clears in the action of town. To be frank it's far easier to tell people to self vote and vote based on your own convictions than to actually force people to participate.

I don't get how you can clearly state that gun "problems" stem from outside behaviors yet only target gun related issues despite being clearly bias. This makes your actions inherently pointless as you're only treating a symptom instead of the disease.

I already told you the specific solution to A&D. Your actions there are also only acknowledging symptoms, however in that case instead of treating the disease you're killing it off and proclaiming it's the best and only solution.
Clair
over 10 years
query: are moderators charged with keeping conpetitive lobby competitive?
pranay7744
over 10 years
just an example. It has nothing to do with this thread.


PS: bronto win the trophy and comp your own setup. you have no right to keep someone from comping any setup that isnt pointfarm or broken. Guns and A&D are not broken. Next time i win I will comp A&D
Zoro
over 10 years

pranay7744 says

gun does not promote bad behaviour at all. bronto is galactically bad. only trolls troll. good players never do anything bad with the gun. bronto does not understand anything. shooting sooner or later is subjective. sometimes shooting faster is good. nothing is problematic. i dont understand what he finds problematic. i think bronto cant control his friends who hipfire. because he has to give vios to them for hipfiring. he wants the remove the gun so that people have no choice of shooting. it is like bronto is trying to remove girls from this planet so that there is no r@|0E.


Implying only girls get r@|0Ed. That's bad logic right there.
pranay7744
over 10 years
gun does not promote bad behaviour at all. bronto is galactically bad. only trolls troll. good players never do anything bad with the gun. bronto does not understand anything. shooting sooner or later is subjective. sometimes shooting faster is good. nothing is problematic. i dont understand what he finds problematic. i think bronto cant control his friends who hipfire. because he has to give vios to them for hipfiring. he wants the remove the gun so that people have no choice of shooting. it is like bronto is trying to remove girls from this planet so that there is no r@|0E.
Mike
over 10 years

thebrontosaurus says

The gun promotes the bad behavior. At least with the hammer, you're given more time to consider. With guns the strategy tends to be shoot sooner rather than later, which is problematic.


You're stupid. This is an excuse and if you don't realize this you need to stop moderating this site.

Once again you're looking at a problem as if it's isolated instead of looking at the root cause that leads to the problem at hand. The problem has never been mechanics, as mechanics are an easy thing to fix.
deletedover 10 years
lets get rid of guns and instead make it mandatory to comp setups with thirds
SquirtleSquad
over 10 years
Auspicious make a clockmaker setup

I'll play it
deletedover 10 years
[quote then i bet you aren't even reading this are you [/quote]
deletedover 10 years

SquirtleSquad says

Prophet and Creepy Girl are a part of the game

should they be competitive


yes