Back to Epicmafia

ban guns from competitive games

deletedover 10 years

people are using the same mentality for shooting a gun as lynching, it's absolutely impossible to make a competitively viable setup with guns, they promote trolling and gamethrowing, the power to instantly remove one person from the game is overbearing and this community can't handle it. furthermore, remove deputy, sniper and gunsmith from competitive lobby and training lobby. part of the problem is guns cause games to become trollish, fast-paced and lower effort which has leaked onto other games, guns probably should be banned from competitive lobby yes, guns are slowly killing competitive lobby. and by slowly, i mean someone get nikki on the phone and tell him to ban guns from competitive lobby. guns are becoming the new lynch, that'st he problem with most new setups. lynching is only ever for lylos now, and equivalent to set in stone absolutes, rather than placeholders for FOSes and reactions. it also encourages a chain of command that makes reading harder, hence why most gun setups end up being scumsided. not only do you run the risk of a *** pr, you also lose any valuable voting process and instead get SHOOT KYLE LOL a bunch. by replacing lynching for a ML with guns, you effectively neuter most competent setups and ruin any form of methodical strategy that could be employed.

guns shouldnt be in comp lobby.. plain and simple, they are either game breaking for town and make easy wins out of nothing or they give mafia a free win because the person with gun shoots. also , theres an entire rule dedicated to hipfiring with guns. guns give people an excuse to grudge lynch people without being able to be opposed. if youre pr with gun you have full control no matter how much town objects, which is just silly.

setup the best setup is what more setups should look like. both PRs shoudl optimally hide instead of claiming , PR claim d1 is the only bad thing about VDLI. if one of the power roles was squishy instead of hard to kill (doc is "squishy, bp is "hard to kill", etc") then it would be great , imo.

and i remember when people actually LIKED playing those scumhunt based setups,. they preferred it to gimmick ones. regardless of whether anyone thinks overall play is worse or better, the attitude people have towards scumhunt setups or scumhunting in general is worse now, which makes overall play worse as a result.

Hibiki
over 10 years
bearissoslow
deletedover 10 years

Happeh says


Cantankerous says


Happeh says


Cantankerous says


Happeh says


Shivv says

(1) needlessly further empower a clear reducing the requirement of participation by other roles which, by extension, encourages apathy and lackluster participation;



basic variant does this. should we ban basic variant?


bv doesn't needlessly empower a clear.


the cop with nigh-useless reports claims to be cleared, then everyone sheeps the clear.


cop's reports are not as useless as you're implying. and everyone sheeps the clear if you're playing a basic level game of BV. you're arguing that vdli is sheep the clear when it rarely plays that way, if ever, with a table of mostly good players.


gun setups play well with good players too. the whole argument against guns revolves around players being encouraged to misuse them, so that argument is easily applied to basic variant.


scenario 1 in vdli: sheep the clears, bad players. scenario 2 in vdli: everyone has a FOS, town leads it as a whole

scenario 1 in sherriff setups: forced to sheep the clears gun choice by default, no say whatsoever in who gets shot
deletedover 10 years

Mike says

The meta needlessly empowers a clear because that's generally the only town role you can expect to have vested interest in winning the game as town. Pr's and mafia are the only roles you can expect to participate while blues sit and wait to be lynched off.


there's not much you can do as a blue when faced with an inexorable iron-willed gunned clear which leads to a reduction in participation by unclears which is the issue.
Hibiki
over 10 years
there are still games where i have to stop town from quicklynching in VDLI by selfvoting for the clears.
Hibiki
over 10 years

Cantankerous says


Happeh says


Cantankerous says


Happeh says


Shivv says

(1) needlessly further empower a clear reducing the requirement of participation by other roles which, by extension, encourages apathy and lackluster participation;



basic variant does this. should we ban basic variant?


bv doesn't needlessly empower a clear.


the cop with nigh-useless reports claims to be cleared, then everyone sheeps the clear.


cop's reports are not as useless as you're implying. and everyone sheeps the clear if you're playing a basic level game of BV. you're arguing that vdli is sheep the clear when it rarely plays that way, if ever, with a table of mostly good players.


gun setups play well with good players too. the whole argument against guns revolves around players being encouraged to misuse them, so that argument is easily applied to basic variant.
deletedover 10 years

Happeh says


Cantankerous says


Happeh says


Shivv says

(1) needlessly further empower a clear reducing the requirement of participation by other roles which, by extension, encourages apathy and lackluster participation;



basic variant does this. should we ban basic variant?


bv doesn't needlessly empower a clear.


the cop with nigh-useless reports claims to be cleared, then everyone sheeps the clear.


cop's reports are not as useless as you're implying. and everyone sheeps the clear if you're playing a basic level game of BV. you're arguing that vdli is sheep the clear when it rarely plays that way, if ever, with a table of mostly good players.
Mike
over 10 years
The meta needlessly empowers a clear because that's generally the only town role you can expect to have vested interest in winning the game as town. Pr's and mafia are the only roles you can expect to participate while blues sit and wait to be lynched off.
Hibiki
over 10 years
okay, shivv's right. my bad.
deletedover 10 years
the town can over-ride the clear on lynches and the clear cannot speed up the day process against a townies will.
deletedover 10 years

Happeh says


Cantankerous says


Happeh says


Shivv says

(1) needlessly further empower a clear reducing the requirement of participation by other roles which, by extension, encourages apathy and lackluster participation;



basic variant does this. should we ban basic variant?


bv doesn't needlessly empower a clear.


the cop with nigh-useless reports claims to be cleared, then everyone sheeps the clear.


that's different retard
deletedover 10 years
guns are being almost solely used to hasten a game and stifling discussion by stiff-necked clears.
deletedover 10 years
look at the reset last night. no rules were broken. the competition was just ruined, hence mods resetting the round to fix it. they keep comp in order.
Hibiki
over 10 years

Cantankerous says


Happeh says


Shivv says

(1) needlessly further empower a clear reducing the requirement of participation by other roles which, by extension, encourages apathy and lackluster participation;



basic variant does this. should we ban basic variant?


bv doesn't needlessly empower a clear.


the cop with nigh-useless reports claims to be cleared, then everyone sheeps the clear.
Giga
over 10 years

Happeh says


Shivv says

(1) needlessly further empower a clear reducing the requirement of participation by other roles which, by extension, encourages apathy and lackluster participation;



basic variant does this. should we ban basic variant?


No it doesn't lol
deletedover 10 years

Happeh says


Cantankerous says


Happeh says

until moderators are charged with keeping competitive lobby competitive, someone will always complain if they attempt to. so perhaps it's about time someone was charged with that


keeping competitive competittive is implicitly part of being a mod. competitive isn't competitive if you let GTers and cheaters run amok.


moderators are charged with enforcing the rules.


they also make sure that competitions don't get ruined.
Mike
over 10 years
Banning competitive roles that aren't being used competitively isn't keeping comp competitive, idiot. Otherwise we'd just ban out the villager role and give everyone a power and design setups filled with power roles so everyone would feel encouraged to participate.
deletedover 10 years

Happeh says


Shivv says

(1) needlessly further empower a clear reducing the requirement of participation by other roles which, by extension, encourages apathy and lackluster participation;



basic variant does this. should we ban basic variant?


bv doesn't needlessly empower a clear.
Giga
over 10 years
Guys we have things under control lol

Trust me when I say we won't make any stupid moves
Hibiki
over 10 years

Cantankerous says


Happeh says

until moderators are charged with keeping competitive lobby competitive, someone will always complain if they attempt to. so perhaps it's about time someone was charged with that


keeping competitive competittive is implicitly part of being a mod. competitive isn't competitive if you let GTers and cheaters run amok.


moderators are charged with enforcing the rules.
Hibiki
over 10 years

Shivv says

(1) needlessly further empower a clear reducing the requirement of participation by other roles which, by extension, encourages apathy and lackluster participation;



basic variant does this. should we ban basic variant?
deletedover 10 years

Happeh says

until moderators are charged with keeping competitive lobby competitive, someone will always complain if they attempt to. so perhaps it's about time someone was charged with that


keeping competitive competittive is implicitly part of being a mod. competitive isn't competitive if you let GTers and cheaters run amok.
Mike
over 10 years

Shivv says

guns have been instrumental in the demise in the quality of game-play since they: (1) needlessly further empower a clear reducing the requirement of participation by other roles which, by extension, encourages apathy and lackluster participation; (2) stifles the reads that can be elicited from a unanimous lynch and (3) just make the games infinitely more toxic as the entirety of the game revolves around appealing to the player with the gun.


1) You're rating this from the lowest form, which is a game filled with uncompetitive training players instead of at the base level of everyone should participate regardless. These are CM behaviors carrying over, not behaviors caused by the mechanic.
2)This would be an improper use of the mechanic and is a practice that should be phased out and discouraged by the mods. Guns don't stop people from conducting the game, they just allow it to happen.
3)That's a fault of the meta, another CM trait that's exacerbated, not perpetuated by the mechanic.
deletedover 10 years

Happeh says

until moderators are charged with keeping competitive lobby competitive, someone will always complain if they attempt to. so perhaps it's about time someone was charged with that


this is a request to the administrator, not a moderator.
deletedover 10 years
i think guns should be banned as well as pranay and one other person.
Hibiki
over 10 years
until moderators are charged with keeping competitive lobby competitive, someone will always complain if they attempt to. so perhaps it's about time someone was charged with that