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ban guns from competitive games

deletedover 10 years

people are using the same mentality for shooting a gun as lynching, it's absolutely impossible to make a competitively viable setup with guns, they promote trolling and gamethrowing, the power to instantly remove one person from the game is overbearing and this community can't handle it. furthermore, remove deputy, sniper and gunsmith from competitive lobby and training lobby. part of the problem is guns cause games to become trollish, fast-paced and lower effort which has leaked onto other games, guns probably should be banned from competitive lobby yes, guns are slowly killing competitive lobby. and by slowly, i mean someone get nikki on the phone and tell him to ban guns from competitive lobby. guns are becoming the new lynch, that'st he problem with most new setups. lynching is only ever for lylos now, and equivalent to set in stone absolutes, rather than placeholders for FOSes and reactions. it also encourages a chain of command that makes reading harder, hence why most gun setups end up being scumsided. not only do you run the risk of a *** pr, you also lose any valuable voting process and instead get SHOOT KYLE LOL a bunch. by replacing lynching for a ML with guns, you effectively neuter most competent setups and ruin any form of methodical strategy that could be employed.

guns shouldnt be in comp lobby.. plain and simple, they are either game breaking for town and make easy wins out of nothing or they give mafia a free win because the person with gun shoots. also , theres an entire rule dedicated to hipfiring with guns. guns give people an excuse to grudge lynch people without being able to be opposed. if youre pr with gun you have full control no matter how much town objects, which is just silly.

setup the best setup is what more setups should look like. both PRs shoudl optimally hide instead of claiming , PR claim d1 is the only bad thing about VDLI. if one of the power roles was squishy instead of hard to kill (doc is "squishy, bp is "hard to kill", etc") then it would be great , imo.

and i remember when people actually LIKED playing those scumhunt based setups,. they preferred it to gimmick ones. regardless of whether anyone thinks overall play is worse or better, the attitude people have towards scumhunt setups or scumhunting in general is worse now, which makes overall play worse as a result.

pranay7744
over 10 years
you are a absolutely nice guy and one of my favourite people on this site. but you are a very bad moderator and thus you should not consider your own opinions when it comes to matters of utmost importance.
pranay7744
over 10 years
lucid asked you to be admin because he didnt know what was up. he just saw the things you showed to him. he saw the outside part. people supported you because of the way you talk. your work is incredibly bad.
pranay7744
over 10 years
what is the harm in setup being scumsided??? how stupid can you be bronto??? also gun setups are not scumsided. good people win it. bad players lose. bad players play more games and so the point payout. you are totally outside the loop bronto.

@squirtle--- what is wrong with too many variables????????? how is it bad?? since you cant manage to gather that much data and process it while playing you think it should be banned????? why not ban multi setups too???
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years

pranay7744 says

bronto please stop being a moderator. you are the reason the comp lobby is dying. you think you are doing the right thing but all you do is force your opinion. you unbanned petri, prevail, and you told abc that if he behaves you will unban him too. prevail was anteup and was ban evading for more than a year. cheated every game she played. and yet you unbanned her. you should do research before you do things. you dont know things. guns have been an eternal part since ever.


I tried stepping down, but Lucid asked me to be an admin :)

Arcbell unbanned Petri.

Prevail was due for her unban.

ABC also just cheated in Training comp this round so he's not getting unbanned any time soon.
Sims
over 10 years

Cantankerous says

bronto, quit being on epicmafia. you're dangerously close to finding my em virtual dildo collection........


whoa. WHOA. chill.
Sims
over 10 years
the sheriff setup from last round and frontier justice hit a good balance
deletedover 10 years

pranay7743 says

bronto please stop being a moderator.


this is funny
deletedover 10 years
guns don't kill people - PEOPLE kill people
pranay7744
over 10 years
bronto please stop being a moderator. you are the reason the comp lobby is dying. you think you are doing the right thing but all you do is force your opinion. you unbanned petri, prevail, and you told abc that if he behaves you will unban him too. prevail was anteup and was ban evading for more than a year. cheated every game she played. and yet you unbanned her. you should do research before you do things. you dont know things. guns have been an eternal part since ever.
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years

Sims says

they're taking your argument too literally but they have a point. guns aren't doing any real damage, it's the setups that aren't really that good


Yeah, that's a nice way to put it. Gun setups are almost always super scumsided though, except for Roleswap.
deletedover 10 years
vig is basically banned already.
Sims
over 10 years
they're taking your argument too literally but they have a point. guns aren't doing any real damage, it's the setups that aren't really that good

also about the timer for the guns, you could make it a setup option so it doesn't conflict with sniper and illusionist
SquirtleSquad
over 10 years
Gunsmith is a problem because it causes too many variables in a single role. It allows for easy trolling and sways the game entirely too much.

Sheriff/Deputy are only clears with a single kill, which isn't inherently bad. Unless you're saying to ban vigilante too.

Sheriff/Deputy become a problem when you have mafia with an extra shot too - which is why Sheriff/Illusionist Deputy/Sniper don't go together well. Too many people die too quickly, or you sit around waiting for someone to pull a trigger.
deletedover 10 years
ok bye steven
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years

pranay7744 says


ban every freaking role, let it be just 7 blues and 3 mafia.


Bernin tried making a setup like that and it was too scumsided.

You and Steven are both taking my argument a little too extreme though.
Steven
over 10 years
Thank you khnm, you're a good man. Have a good night too ok? Bye bye
deletedover 10 years
bye steven hoep you sleep well :)
Steven
over 10 years
Guns causing self voting and a worst scumhunting based meta or whatever was said is ridiculous. Back in 2.0, people suggested RLs every time there was a ML and this was before guns.

Guns not being "competitive" or "pure" mafia is something of a notion that has been going for a while now, and it's getting on my nerves. Let's just ban every game that isn't celebrities and blue dawn starts against mafia, that should fix that problem.


pranay7744 says

only ban broken setups and pointfarms. you have no right to ban any other setup. let alone setups that have been played without problems forever.


Basically this. I'm outta here though, it's 2 AM.
pranay7744
over 10 years
bronto contradicts himself. gun is also a good element and it has been used much better than oracle and much more in competitive setups it is in. you are only worried about trolls who hipfire. stop the trolls.

it is like you dont make nuclear missiles because trolls will hipfire the missile. you are not able to stop/convert trolls
pranay7744
over 10 years
might as well ban bomb because it kills a mafia without scumhunting and it also involves no scumhunting


ban orc because it also involves no scumhunting from your point of view. it reveals a mafia and too much power to one person


ban gf because it is mafia and should come guilty according to the normal mafia funda


ban cop because it requires no scumhunting. it gives you guilty n1 and is luck based.

ban every freaking role, let it be just 7 blues and 3 mafia.
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years
Nah, oracle is a good role and used well in almost all the competitive setups it's in.
SquirtleSquad
over 10 years
Guns don't belong in competitive. At least not guns that can be given to any player. Sheriff/Deputy isn't inherently bad - gunsmith is.

Fungunning ruins setups, the potential to give someone a gun that could be mafia, or if the gunsmith dies without revealing who has a gun, or is hooked, etc - so many variables, it's just not competitive.

The Sheriff/Deputy is just a clear with a kill. Hipfiring is already illegal, no need to do anything with the roles for that.
SquirtleSquad
over 10 years
it's not about the ability to shoot, it's about the decision making that comes with shooting. it would also have to apply to every single role with a shot, town or mafia. illusionists and snipers would have to wait.


Sims says

people aren't going to start quicklynching because they can't hipfire


not what i said
>uncc'd cop here, guilty on sims
>have to wait x-amount of time for gun to shoot the guilty
>if town quicklynches can't shoot
pranay7744
over 10 years
advantages and disadvantages makes the freaking game. each peculiarity and each restriction that comes with roles makes the game. that is all part of the game. it adds more dimensions to game and it adds more skill sets to the game. it shouldnt be about just plain mafia. these roles provide scope for different type of skills. next you will argue that oracle should be banned because it gives too much power to a dead player to reveal one mafia and then there is no team work. no scumhunting???????? isnt it? the way you think you will ban every pr.
Sims
over 10 years
people aren't going to start quicklynching because they can't hipfire