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ban guns from competitive games

deletedalmost 11 years

people are using the same mentality for shooting a gun as lynching, it's absolutely impossible to make a competitively viable setup with guns, they promote trolling and gamethrowing, the power to instantly remove one person from the game is overbearing and this community can't handle it. furthermore, remove deputy, sniper and gunsmith from competitive lobby and training lobby. part of the problem is guns cause games to become trollish, fast-paced and lower effort which has leaked onto other games, guns probably should be banned from competitive lobby yes, guns are slowly killing competitive lobby. and by slowly, i mean someone get nikki on the phone and tell him to ban guns from competitive lobby. guns are becoming the new lynch, that'st he problem with most new setups. lynching is only ever for lylos now, and equivalent to set in stone absolutes, rather than placeholders for FOSes and reactions. it also encourages a chain of command that makes reading harder, hence why most gun setups end up being scumsided. not only do you run the risk of a *** pr, you also lose any valuable voting process and instead get SHOOT KYLE LOL a bunch. by replacing lynching for a ML with guns, you effectively neuter most competent setups and ruin any form of methodical strategy that could be employed.

guns shouldnt be in comp lobby.. plain and simple, they are either game breaking for town and make easy wins out of nothing or they give mafia a free win because the person with gun shoots. also , theres an entire rule dedicated to hipfiring with guns. guns give people an excuse to grudge lynch people without being able to be opposed. if youre pr with gun you have full control no matter how much town objects, which is just silly.

setup the best setup is what more setups should look like. both PRs shoudl optimally hide instead of claiming , PR claim d1 is the only bad thing about VDLI. if one of the power roles was squishy instead of hard to kill (doc is "squishy, bp is "hard to kill", etc") then it would be great , imo.

and i remember when people actually LIKED playing those scumhunt based setups,. they preferred it to gimmick ones. regardless of whether anyone thinks overall play is worse or better, the attitude people have towards scumhunt setups or scumhunting in general is worse now, which makes overall play worse as a result.

Peta
almost 11 years
I doubt guns have anything to do with the self-vote meta.
deletedalmost 11 years
and people didn't do that sims before the sudden gun-craze in competitive lobby, which is the point. asking for self-votes day 1 in vdli 2-3 years ago was out of the question.
deletedalmost 11 years
fawkes, guns are too hard to moderate just like that, hipfiring is already not gamethrowing and you can remove any player you want from the game at any time, so you can use any laughable reason you want to shoot someone and you most likely won't get a violation.
Peta
almost 11 years
There's no logical argument stemming from any sort of precedent for a blanket ban on guns. It's a point of pragmatism.
Sims
almost 11 years
mellifluous brought up a good point. guns are no different than asking for self votes as a clear, which everyone does anyway
deletedalmost 11 years
although guns also put too much power in one players hands which is also unhealthy for competition. i'm repeating myself now and i wouldn't have to if you pro-gun people would actually skim through the thread before making your already addressed posts.
Sims
almost 11 years
well, i think it would be pretty stupid to be able to make a completely viable and competitive setup, but not have it comped because it has a gun
Malaka
almost 11 years
Guns don't troll. People troll with guns
GuyFawkes85
almost 11 years
Ban the trolls, and teach bad players.
deletedalmost 11 years
Kyle, you realize shooting a gun is pragmatically the same as asking for a hammer? So, if a clear really wanted to troll/gt a certain player. All he has to do is ask for selfvotes and hammer that player.
deletedalmost 11 years
guns shouldn't be banned because of bad players messing up with guns, they should be banned because guns are a tool for trolling and you can't teach a troll not to troll, they're going to do it anyway.
Peta
almost 11 years

Sims says

what's the point of making a setup if it can't be comped




Quit asking stupid questions
Sims
almost 11 years
what's the point of making a setup if it can't be comped
GuyFawkes85
almost 11 years

Sims says

guns don't encourage any sort of mentality. the people who hipfire are the same people who random vote in scumhunting setups.


exact.
deletedalmost 11 years

Sims says

also banning guns is a really unfair limitation on setup makers


we're only talking about banning guns from gold heart games, not setups altogether.
GuyFawkes85
almost 11 years
The problems guns cause are caused only on bad players, just as all other problems. Good players will not suffer them, or will suffer them very little. So, instead of banning guns, TEACH HOW TO USE THEM and how to improve at the game, to the newer players and to the bad players.
Sims
almost 11 years
also banning guns is a really unfair limitation on setup makers
deletedalmost 11 years

Sims says

guns don't encourage any sort of mentality.


wrong
Sims
almost 11 years
guns don't encourage any sort of mentality. the people who hipfire are the same people who random vote in scumhunting setups.
Malaka
almost 11 years

Mellifluous says

"setup the best setup is what more setups should look like"

Check out the payout. 43/56 - town/scum.

Similar to A&D's 41/58 payout?

Like I said, the problem is not having guns. It is mediocre clears with guns. You will most likely lose a game if you have mediocre clears gun or no gun.

An inherently balanced setup will become scumsided because of the excessive amount of mediocre players.



mediocre is kinda like average, so even if everyone collectively got better, they'd still be mediocre
deletedalmost 11 years
scumhunting is dead and guns are to blame, so of course scumhunting setups are becoming more scumsided.
deletedalmost 11 years
you people are arguing to keep guns over problems that are caused because of guns.
deletedalmost 11 years
the reason newer scumhunting setups have skyrocketed in scum win ratio is a combination of training lobby [irrelevant to this] and the new gun mentality which discourages what the setups were made for and encourages lazy random votes and speed lynches.
deletedalmost 11 years
"setup the best setup is what more setups should look like"

Check out the payout. 43/56 - town/scum.

Similar to A&D's 41/58 payout?

Like I said, the problem is not having guns. It is mediocre clears with guns. You will most likely lose a game if you have mediocre clears gun or no gun.

An inherently balanced setup will become scumsided because of the excessive amount of mediocre players.
deletedalmost 11 years
it isn't accurate and you already said you didn't read the op and didn't read the thread shacky. there are tons of reasons to ban guns, and not just because i don't like them. sniper is my favorite role so of course i like guns, just not for competitive.