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ban guns from competitive games

deletedover 10 years

people are using the same mentality for shooting a gun as lynching, it's absolutely impossible to make a competitively viable setup with guns, they promote trolling and gamethrowing, the power to instantly remove one person from the game is overbearing and this community can't handle it. furthermore, remove deputy, sniper and gunsmith from competitive lobby and training lobby. part of the problem is guns cause games to become trollish, fast-paced and lower effort which has leaked onto other games, guns probably should be banned from competitive lobby yes, guns are slowly killing competitive lobby. and by slowly, i mean someone get nikki on the phone and tell him to ban guns from competitive lobby. guns are becoming the new lynch, that'st he problem with most new setups. lynching is only ever for lylos now, and equivalent to set in stone absolutes, rather than placeholders for FOSes and reactions. it also encourages a chain of command that makes reading harder, hence why most gun setups end up being scumsided. not only do you run the risk of a *** pr, you also lose any valuable voting process and instead get SHOOT KYLE LOL a bunch. by replacing lynching for a ML with guns, you effectively neuter most competent setups and ruin any form of methodical strategy that could be employed.

guns shouldnt be in comp lobby.. plain and simple, they are either game breaking for town and make easy wins out of nothing or they give mafia a free win because the person with gun shoots. also , theres an entire rule dedicated to hipfiring with guns. guns give people an excuse to grudge lynch people without being able to be opposed. if youre pr with gun you have full control no matter how much town objects, which is just silly.

setup the best setup is what more setups should look like. both PRs shoudl optimally hide instead of claiming , PR claim d1 is the only bad thing about VDLI. if one of the power roles was squishy instead of hard to kill (doc is "squishy, bp is "hard to kill", etc") then it would be great , imo.

and i remember when people actually LIKED playing those scumhunt based setups,. they preferred it to gimmick ones. regardless of whether anyone thinks overall play is worse or better, the attitude people have towards scumhunt setups or scumhunting in general is worse now, which makes overall play worse as a result.

GuyFawkes85
over 10 years

kyle says

this is false, hollywood illusions is bad, a&d is bad, any guns setup is inherently bad just because guns are bad.


Tell me how you would play a Hollywood Illusion game (hypotise they hit the bleeder, obv, and the illu shoot is a blue).

I guess you could handle a gun, right?

I'm curious, how would you play it?

You are the bleeder and are gunned.
Sims
over 10 years
zovea just accurately summed up your thread and you retaliated with ad hominem
deletedover 10 years
please tell me you're some anti-gun rights troll holy god

you have no idea how many setups have guns and how important they are

0/10 troll wouldnt acknowledge again
deletedover 10 years
like i don't think zovea even agrees with half the things he argues for or against, he's just a compulsive arguer or something.
deletedover 10 years
zovea is dumb and argues just to argue and i don't get why people don't just do what i'm about to do and put him on ignore.
deletedover 10 years
yes mell, the community can't handle guns which is why we need to remove them. you can't teach a community to handle a tool that was just made to be abused.
Sims
over 10 years

Mike says

This thread is essentially "I don't care much for guns or sucky players so lets just ban guns so sucky players can't ruin games with guns in them".


that's exactly what it nis
GuyFawkes85
over 10 years

GuyFawkes85 says



(It's obviously an Extreme opposition)


congratulations for your reading skills, Sammie.


Btw, I agree that MOST (if not all) the setups with guns could be done without them, and I also like the scumhunting setups (if you feel like checking, I'm "running" on HI now, but I have in my fav. setups BV, DLYG, Carbon-14, BL). It's just that one doesn't always feels like scumhunting the whole time...
deletedover 10 years

GuyFawkes85 says

(back to the topic)

Definitely AGAINST banning guns from comp.

The problem is not the gun, the problem (can be) the setup.

Hollywood Illusions, for example (which I think is the setup who made Kyle write the OP) is good that way, with the gun, a bleeder, 2 prs and those maf (illu + actress).

Shot in the dark is DEFINITELY NOT good (and the problem is not - or not only - the gunsmiths).

(It's obviously an Extreme opposition)


this is false, hollywood illusions is bad, a&d is bad, any guns setup is inherently bad just because guns are bad.
FunThunder777
over 10 years
I feel we already have fairly stringent gun control laws in both the comp and training lobbies. Most guns can only be shot once per game. That's just one bullet in each gun. Sure you have some like saboteurs who hand out guns that backfire, but all in all banning guns as a whole won't decrease the number of deaths in our villages. Kyle, you sir are an autocratic scum. We won't allow you to take our guns. 2nd amendment. WE WILL FIGHT! WE WILL WIN!

Who's with me?!!?
Mike
over 10 years
This thread is essentially "I don't care much for guns or sucky players so lets just ban guns so sucky players can't ruin games with guns in them".
Sammie
over 10 years

Mike says

How are 50/50 setups scumhunt setups?


most gun setups end up being 50/50 so thanks for making your own point moot
Sims
over 10 years
any setup that doesn't have a way of confirming someone is town or mafia (investigative roles) is a scumhunting setup
Sammie
over 10 years
on a side-note, i'm not blindly hating gun setups because i suck at them. in fact when i decided to play them during my bypassing period i almost always did way above average. doesnt mean i think that theyre actually a positive influence on the site.
Mike
over 10 years
How are 50/50 setups scumhunt setups?
Sammie
over 10 years
literally any setup that has a gun could be done without the gun. the only reason people seem to like guns is because its more fun to click 1 button and have a dead person than to have to actually play and lead a lynch.
Sammie
over 10 years
comparing a setup that has been unranked only and exempt from moderation before all unranked games were exempt and comparing it to a bad comp setup as a way to support guns is pretty funny to me.

hollywood illusions is NOT a good gun setup. in fact its actually pretty terrible.
GuyFawkes85
over 10 years
(back to the topic)

Definitely AGAINST banning guns from comp.

The problem is not the gun, the problem (can be) the setup.

Hollywood Illusions, for example (which I think is the setup who made Kyle write the OP) is good that way, with the gun, a bleeder, 2 prs and those maf (illu + actress).

Shot in the dark is DEFINITELY NOT good (and the problem is not - or not only - the gunsmiths).

(It's obviously an Extreme opposition)
Malaka
over 10 years

Mellifluous says

Guns are the not the problem. The problems are mediocre players having guns and there is a substantial amount of players who do not know how to play setups with guns. I concur with the fact that a gun gives a player tremendous amount of influence. Yet, at the same time, shooting is the same as hammering. If a person really wanted to troll/gt, he can do that in a non-gun setup via asking for the hammer. This is like a game of VDLI with mediocre clears – your chances of losing are that much higher than had you had competent clears. A substantial amount of players enjoy sheeping and relying on clears. Regardless of having a gun or not, having mediocre clears is a HUGE disadvantage.


My second point is there is a substantial amount of people who do not know how to play setups with guns. It is our responsibility to teach these people. Take A&D for example. The setup is inherently balanced, but I have played several games where towns do not play optimally. They do not massclaim d2 when blue dies, not hammering in blues when there are gs ccs, or not gun testing. As a result, the bp shoots the gs or messes up autowin. The reason people lose in A&D and it becomes scumsided is not because of the gun. It is because they do not follow the optimal way of play. I have won two trophies off A&D. When I am town in A&D, I usually end up on the winning end. A&D is an easy setup if you learn how the ins and outs of it.





So essentially you're saying that we should ban the sucky players?
deletedover 10 years
Guns are the not the problem. The problems are mediocre players having guns and there is a substantial amount of players who do not know how to play setups with guns. I concur with the fact that a gun gives a player tremendous amount of influence. Yet, at the same time, shooting is the same as hammering. If a person really wanted to troll/gt, he can do that in a non-gun setup via asking for the hammer. This is like a game of VDLI with mediocre clears – your chances of losing are that much higher than had you had competent clears. A substantial amount of players enjoy sheeping and relying on clears. Regardless of having a gun or not, having mediocre clears is a HUGE disadvantage.


My second point is there is a substantial amount of people who do not know how to play setups with guns. It is our responsibility to teach these people. Take A&D for example. The setup is inherently balanced, but I have played several games where towns do not play optimally. They do not massclaim d2 when blue dies, not hammering in blues when there are gs ccs, or not gun testing. As a result, the bp shoots the gs or messes up autowin. The reason people lose in A&D and it becomes scumsided is not because of the gun. It is because they do not follow the optimal way of play. I have won two trophies off A&D. When I am town in A&D, I usually end up on the winning end. A&D is an easy setup if you learn how the ins and outs of it.
deletedover 10 years
lmao.
deletedover 10 years

SquirtleSquad says


Warrens says

what are endless hearts? lmao


Probably something to do with Pranay, Arrow, and Sircyx having more hearts than anyone else.


I've been playing 4 hearts for 4 games now and am still at 4. That's probably it.
Sammie
over 10 years
well actually empire i didnt even do anything that could get you mad , i was replying thoughtfully. but you wouldnt know that since youve had me blocked for ages and mod-negged my post in which i personally apologized to you over my past behavior.
Mike
over 10 years

kyle says

for removing guns - thebrontosaurus, rondar, retti, kyle, bearissoslow, peta

against removing guns - pranay and zovea


Posts like these are really stupid. Implying popularity increase the validity of your opinion.
deletedover 10 years


over ruby mafia


uhhh yeah ruby mafia that's it