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ban guns from competitive games

deletedover 10 years

people are using the same mentality for shooting a gun as lynching, it's absolutely impossible to make a competitively viable setup with guns, they promote trolling and gamethrowing, the power to instantly remove one person from the game is overbearing and this community can't handle it. furthermore, remove deputy, sniper and gunsmith from competitive lobby and training lobby. part of the problem is guns cause games to become trollish, fast-paced and lower effort which has leaked onto other games, guns probably should be banned from competitive lobby yes, guns are slowly killing competitive lobby. and by slowly, i mean someone get nikki on the phone and tell him to ban guns from competitive lobby. guns are becoming the new lynch, that'st he problem with most new setups. lynching is only ever for lylos now, and equivalent to set in stone absolutes, rather than placeholders for FOSes and reactions. it also encourages a chain of command that makes reading harder, hence why most gun setups end up being scumsided. not only do you run the risk of a *** pr, you also lose any valuable voting process and instead get SHOOT KYLE LOL a bunch. by replacing lynching for a ML with guns, you effectively neuter most competent setups and ruin any form of methodical strategy that could be employed.

guns shouldnt be in comp lobby.. plain and simple, they are either game breaking for town and make easy wins out of nothing or they give mafia a free win because the person with gun shoots. also , theres an entire rule dedicated to hipfiring with guns. guns give people an excuse to grudge lynch people without being able to be opposed. if youre pr with gun you have full control no matter how much town objects, which is just silly.

setup the best setup is what more setups should look like. both PRs shoudl optimally hide instead of claiming , PR claim d1 is the only bad thing about VDLI. if one of the power roles was squishy instead of hard to kill (doc is "squishy, bp is "hard to kill", etc") then it would be great , imo.

and i remember when people actually LIKED playing those scumhunt based setups,. they preferred it to gimmick ones. regardless of whether anyone thinks overall play is worse or better, the attitude people have towards scumhunt setups or scumhunting in general is worse now, which makes overall play worse as a result.

thebrontosaurus
over 10 years

Sims says

i like that idea, but i always take like 10 minutes to shoot anyway


Not everyone is this pragmatic



a waiting period on the gun doesn't work, unless you apply it to every single day action

otherwise certain roles will have advantage over guns in that they can act before the gunsmith shoots


What other day actions would affect the ability to fire the gun? Lynches can't go through until the gun meeting is used so that wouldn't be an issue.
SquirtleSquad
over 10 years
or days with quick lynching
SquirtleSquad
over 10 years
a waiting period on the gun doesn't work, unless you apply it to every single day action

otherwise certain roles will have advantage over guns in that they can act before the gunsmith shoots
Sims
over 10 years
i like that idea, but i always take like 10 minutes to shoot anyway
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years


i mean sure a year from now after everyone only plays stbs and b2ns the sitewide meta would probably be a lot better and less pr reliant, but at that point you should be weighing the pros and the cons and ask yourself if it's really worth it


Yeah, it's not really fair to say that one way is better than the other any impress one's views onto the whole site (even if guns have contributed to the slowdown of the lobby).

Another solution that I believe Bumpers came up with earlier was to have lucid code a waiting period on the gun so that you couldn't fire immediately and had to wait 2 or so minutes before you could fire, in order to discourage hipfiring. I think this would be a very viable solution as well and would probably be a change that everyone could welcome.
Steven
over 10 years
Mods weren't made for this stuff
SquirtleSquad
over 10 years
>you have no right

what are you going to do pranay

also you use too many question marks
pranay7744
over 10 years
only ban broken setups and pointfarms. you have no right to ban any other setup. let alone setups that have been played without problems forever.
deletedover 10 years

Steven says

Honestly this whole attitude of banning every setup that isn't "perfect" just makes me want to quit the site, not that I even still play regularly


what makes me want to quit the site is the terrible userbase and ridiculous moderating
pranay7744
over 10 years
no there are only cons. besides you always have the option of playing what you want. why do you want others to not play what they like????? discussing this is bad because most people dont check forums. and there are absolutely no valid points to ban it. all those points are bad. you are wrong about each one of them. it is nor pr reliant. one can lynch after the gun is fired. the gun just acts as another kill to make it mylo or lylo. if someone is clear and knows the mafia and the town is not listening to him then he can shoot the mafia. there are innumerable things i can point out and i can refute each one of your so called valid points. but i dont think it is worth my time. because you are not good enough to understand the skills involved in playing setups with guns. you have no idea how much scumhunting emerges from the guns
Steven
over 10 years
Honestly this whole attitude of banning every setup that isn't "perfect" just makes me want to quit the site, not that I even still play regularly
Sims
over 10 years
i mean sure a year from now after everyone only plays stbs and b2ns the sitewide meta would probably be a lot better and less pr reliant, but at that point you should be weighing the pros and the cons and ask yourself if it's really worth it
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years
Noted. A blanket ban is definitely easier to manage rather than asking people "hey don't comp this", but I get your point.

And yeah, I don't think PR reliance is ever going to change, but at the same time, I think guns only help to perpetuate that and give them more power.

Pranay it's all speculation. We may do something, we may not. There are pros and cons to either side here. I just want to discuss with as many people as I can so I can make the most informed decision possible. Obviously I am anti-gun, and this is largely my own personal opinion, albeit, I do believe that there are very valid points as to why they should be disallowed, personal views aside. Likewise, Sims and others have made points as to how gun setups can be done right.
pranay7744
over 10 years
why do you want to change the meta??? why do you want to take away from the people what they like???/ i can change the meta. you need to work hard to change the meta. play the game and show them what you think is better. if they believe you in game they will follow you. pr centered game is the essence of the game right now,
Sims
over 10 years
if anything just encourage comp winners to not comp setups with guns. a blanket ban is just dumb.
Sims
over 10 years
i don't think there is a fix because i don't think this is a problem, but if you want to "fix the meta" and steer it away from being pr reliant, there isn't really a solution. changing a sitewide mentality is sort of beyond our and your grasp.

for the guns, i have no problem with them, and i think that they're ok and a lot of fun depending on the setup. i think armed & vested did it right, and frontier justice is good too. it's really up to the setup creators to make a setup revolve less around the gun, but that's no reason to ban them altogether.
deletedover 10 years
guys
pranay7744
over 10 years
how do you even think that you have the authority to determine that banning guns is for good? go play in some custom lobby where there is no gun. dont kill the comp lobby
pranay7744
over 10 years
@bronto-- there is no problem, it doesnt need a freaking fix.
pranay7744
over 10 years

Malaka says


Peta says


Malaka says

Straw man me more please.


OK.


Malaka says

Would it be fair if I suggested that you think we should be forced to compete on classic mafia since it's fair and highly based on verbal communication.


Classic Mafia is a setup that is (1) fair and (2) based on verbal communication. There are very many other setups that satisfy these criteria. So no, it wouldn't be fair if you suggested that I think that.


Yep, this is true, and you are suggesting that a game with a silencer and fiddler cannot fulfill that objective. However, I believe that this can add an element of strategy in a game, and these games are still fair and based on strategy. Just out of curiosity, do you think that DLYV is a legitimate game?


https://epicmafia.com/topic/62515

here is the real voting. vote here.

you cant ban gun from any round. there are 6 different setups to play. people can play those setups. if those setups dont fill, it means more people find the gun setups better suited for competition. I play both gun and non gun setups each round.
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years

Sims says

5 rounds without guns won't fix any of what kyle thinks is damage to the meta, because that's a lot more of a long term issue


What would you suggest as a fix then?

I think banning them outright for good would upset too many people, at least right now since guns are peaking in popularity in comp.
Malaka
over 10 years

Peta says


Malaka says

Straw man me more please.


OK.


Malaka says

Would it be fair if I suggested that you think we should be forced to compete on classic mafia since it's fair and highly based on verbal communication.


Classic Mafia is a setup that is (1) fair and (2) based on verbal communication. There are very many other setups that satisfy these criteria. So no, it wouldn't be fair if you suggested that I think that.


Yep, this is true, and you are suggesting that a game with a silencer and fiddler cannot fulfill that objective. However, I believe that this can add an element of strategy in a game, and these games are still fair and based on strategy. Just out of curiosity, do you think that DLYV is a legitimate game?
Sims
over 10 years
5 rounds without guns won't fix any of what kyle thinks is damage to the meta, because that's a lot more of a long term issue
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years

Peta says

Five or ten rounds is a long time and it will draw a lot of ire assuming the people who care know about the existence of the forum tab. If you're gonna do that then you might as well just ban guns outright.


It's slightly easier to manage than remembering which rounds can/cannot be gun rounds, like every 3rd round for instance. Either or would work imo, anything to try and phase it out for a bit and see what happens as a result.

I'd probably do a 5 round ban if anything, that's a little over 1.5 months provided no resets.
Peta
over 10 years
Five or ten rounds is a long time and it will draw a lot of ire assuming the people who care know about the existence of the forum tab. If you're gonna do that then you might as well just ban guns outright.