Epicmafia

Should hip-firing be GT?

over 9 years

This is not a complaint thread.

No mods have been injured in the making of this thread.

Parental discretion advised: contains gun violence.

I originally filed an appeal against Mist, mistakenly believing that hip-firing being GT was the precedent ruling. I had this mistaken assumption because the last time I was active on this site, that was the case.

It is now clear that my actual appeal is against the current precedent. Mist was merely basing the verdict on current precedent, and has made no mistake in handling the original report

To me this seems like a very black/white scenario. Shooting a gun for the sake of shooting a gun is a clear indication that you do not care about the outcome of the game. If you cared about the outcome of the game, you would try to shoot in such a way that benefits town.

The current precedent treats hip-firing as trolling. Is there any merit in this? Is someone who randomly fires a gun trying to antagonize anyone, or is it that they do not care about winning?

Helsinki has taken the bold stand against the current precedent, and I imagine that moderators are discussing this among themselves before the next vote is cast.

Lets help them make the right decision. >>>>>>>>>

Should hip-firing (shooting with no reads) be considered Game-throwing?

Yes

deletedover 9 years

Orly says

Josh could have gotten a lot more people banned, as far as i know.

still waiting on those skype logs to be leaked.

yeah but for actual reasons instead of just throwing violations on closed reports and then deleting all of the rule text and making them all show up as "deleted rule"

like we were all stumped because the report text suggested a no violation or a note but all of the violations were carrying a 3 month period before expiration, which notes never did, until it finally hit me that the weird violations were given on 4/14

deletedover 9 years

i used to think calvin was the most lore-thirsty person, but it looks like devante is rising to the challenge

Aesop

over 9 years

Polo says

I guess I was more directly talking to other people about it, but more with the "it's not GT" argument. There didn't seem that much progress to make on the other arguments you had.

I don't think hipfiring taking a player out of the game necessarily makes it more severe than trolling (this seems subjective, and not particularly worth arguing) or see how a separate vio would demonstrate this increased severity. Especially, 'cause you think that increasing the suspension hours is too much.

It's not at all comparable to drunking the cop in an otherwise autowin scenario, or other GT actions, because it's random and "troll", not directly against the win condition.

I think what you brought up with Keri about whether not playing to your win condition counted as GT, but ISP'ing all game isnt' gamethrowing, and that's as neutral as it gets. I think GT requires something more than troll play/apathy, and there aren't really other relevant situations where someone plays not towards their win condition but not against it directly to worry about.

U sure called me out tho?

same

Polo

over 9 years

I guess I was more directly talking to other people about it, but more with the "it's not GT" argument. There didn't seem that much progress to make on the other arguments you had.

I don't think hipfiring taking a player out of the game necessarily makes it more severe than trolling (this seems subjective, and not particularly worth arguing) or see how a separate vio would demonstrate this increased severity. Especially, 'cause you think that increasing the suspension hours is too much.

It's not at all comparable to drunking the cop in an otherwise autowin scenario, or other GT actions, because it's random and "troll", not directly against the win condition.

I think what you brought up with Keri about whether not playing to your win condition counted as GT is interesting, but ISP'ing all game isn't gamethrowing, and that's as neutral as it gets. I think GT requires something more than troll play/apathy, and there aren't really other relevant situations where someone plays not towards their win condition but not against it directly to worry about.

U sure called me out tho?

deletedover 9 years

Orly says

Josh could have gotten a lot more people banned, as far as i know.

still waiting on those skype logs to be leaked.

i think shivv is the one who has them tbh cant wait for those leakz

deletedover 9 years

leaky logs? more like my d lol.

deletedover 9 years

i don't think there is a competitive setup with vig in it anyways

Orly

over 9 years

Josh could have gotten a lot more people banned, as far as i know.

still waiting on those skype logs to be leaked.

deletedover 9 years

just want to call more attention to the fact that Josh nearly got soda banned from epic mafia from beyond the grave

deletedover 9 years

hey dude, you know how you epic lose this argument? because i, the mod, know that you hipfire sometimes. haha i could've banned you. anyway peace, skater.

Hibiki

over 9 years

Beam says

If U Think About it, HipFiring is like a vig kill n1 lol.

that doesn't make it any more OK

theres a reason there are no vig setups played in comp, ever

deletedover 9 years

mist says

Devante says

i like bill as a mod, i don't think i've ever disagreed with anything he said mostly because his opinions mimic mine and i am often right, so he in turn is also often right

Ex: Right now

i like all mods until they disagree with me and then they suck.

pretty accurate

Hibiki

over 9 years

Devante says

so tell me connor, how do you determine as a moderator if someone is hipshotting by grudge or not?

Let's say Pranay joins a game and is shot by someone who he argues with a lot on the forums ect.
They didn't say anything about disliking pranay in that game, in pre game or after the shot.

Their defense now can be they're rolling the dice, so they get no violation then correct?

i'm not talking about how it's moderated. i'm talking about what it is, what is isn't, what it's similar to and what it isn't similar to. if two things happen to be punished the same way, distinguishing between them isn't necessary

deletedover 9 years

Devante says

i like bill as a mod, i don't think i've ever disagreed with anything he said mostly because his opinions mimic mine and i am often right, so he in turn is also often right

Ex: Right now

i like all mods until they disagree with me and then they suck.

Orly

over 9 years

Beam says

If U Think About it, HipFiring is like a vig kill n1 lol.

hmm this is true

edit: well not really, because the gun enables you to get better reads before you shoot. so voiding that possibility, by shooting immediately, is definitely not playing with the intent of winning

deletedover 9 years

Beam says

Something called intuition exists and for me it's right more often than not.

you're one vio away from a site ban because you won't stop hip firing and you would have been banned if i hadn't realized that Josh gave you two violations on previously closed reports when he goat man bombed the site, but please keep insisting that your "intuition" is anything more than a way for you to squeeze more games of mafia out of your day

deletedover 9 years

If U Think About it, HipFiring is like a vig kill n1 lol.

deletedover 9 years

Hipfiring should only be GT if the intent is to grudge. Plain and simple.

deletedover 9 years

i like bill as a mod, i don't think i've ever disagreed with anything he said mostly because his opinions mimic mine and i am often right, so he in turn is also often right

Ex: Right now

deletedover 9 years

at the very least i think hipfiring needs to be mentioned somewhere in the rules, whether it's put under GT or trolling. right now the word never even comes up.

deletedover 9 years

Something called intuition exists and for me it's right more often than not.

deletedover 9 years

Orly says

what the mods should keep in mind, whenever they deliberate on rules and precedents, is that THEY must define the rules; not the players reporting the incidents. never presume the language of the reporter is impartial; most reports are made with some degree of vengeful intent

all the more reason that moderating it as trolling is wrong, because it's very easy to say "nothing in the trolling rule definition has anything to do with my shooting my gun early" and the only thing the mods can respond with is "yeah but we give everyone else trolling for it, you're supposed to know that"

deletedover 9 years

Satan says

i think we should make it harder for people to get their hands on guns, maybe there should be a role where you give people a permit to have a gun, and then you can receive a gun after maybe

obama role can't vote until he produces his birth certificate

Orly

over 9 years

what the mods should keep in mind, whenever they deliberate on rules and precedents, is that THEY must define the rules; not the players reporting the incidents. never presume the language of the reporter is impartial; most reports are made with some degree of vengeful intent

Satan

over 9 years

i think we should make it harder for people to get their hands on guns, maybe there should be a role where you give people a permit to have a gun, and then you can receive a gun after maybe