I originally filed an appeal against Mist, mistakenly believing that hip-firing being GT was the precedent ruling. I had this mistaken assumption because the last time I was active on this site, that was the case.
It is now clear that my actual appeal is against the current precedent. Mist was merely basing the verdict on current precedent, and has made no mistake in handling the original report
To me this seems like a very black/white scenario. Shooting a gun for the sake of shooting a gun is a clear indication that you do not care about the outcome of the game. If you cared about the outcome of the game, you would try to shoot in such a way that benefits town.
The current precedent treats hip-firing as trolling. Is there any merit in this? Is someone who randomly fires a gun trying to antagonize anyone, or is it that they do not care about winning?
Helsinki has taken the bold stand against the current precedent, and I imagine that moderators are discussing this among themselves before the next vote is cast.
Lets help them make the right decision. >>>>>>>>>
Should hip-firing (shooting with no reads) be considered Game-throwing?
33
Yes
24
No
deletedover 9 years
Last I checked I have 6 (possibly less) vios.
deletedover 9 years
you can, even if you do hipshoot mafia with a gun, you've managed to get 0 reads, you didn't get to see who the player would push on, who fos'd that player, ect... Anyone with half a brain knows that you need to gain reads to win the game, even when I'm the cop in jan 2.0 for example I never out my report right away, I let my cc claim and I see who they push on (Who they think the cop is) that in essence gives me in my own eyes a clear.
Same thing applies with a gun, even if you've managed to shoot the mafia (When it's more probable that if you hipshoot it's going to be town) that mafia you shot gave you no partner reads.
deletedover 9 years
well no you can't, there's a higher chance of hitting a traitor than there is of a mason on say n1, when someones taking advantage of the mathematical probability of getting the town in a better position, well then you can't call that gamethrow.
deletedover 9 years
most of the "gray area" situations here would at least result in a note for GTing and warrant an actual GT vio in further instances. IMHO.
well, i'm not sure myself now. if you compare it to vig shooting in reverse mafia. let's assume hitting traitor is good for town
that's like, a high percent chance to benefit town. you can't control what you hit, only who, but you're still sitting in the "good for town" camp if you try it.
so can we really punish people who roll the dice, just because it's not in their favour? i guess we can't
deletedover 9 years
lol....
deletedover 9 years
what you're really looking for when giving a gamethrow violation at least is intent, connor. so when someone decides to hipfire and hope that they shoot mafia, the intent wouldn't be to want to lose the game, it'd be the exact same intent as wanting to win. It would however be disrupting gameplay through a specific action (shooting without reads) which is what trolling would be. hence why trolling is more of an appropriate violation for hip-firing than gamethrow.
deletedover 9 years
ugh god these kinds of obtuse situations don't even happen that often, why would you spend hours on end debating them
calvin, does wifoming as doc in autowin when you are aware it is autowin "for fun" count as gamethrowing if you try really hard (and succeed, for arguments sake) to find the mafia afterwards. what if they decided they just wanted a more challenging game. does that immunise them from the violation?
deletedover 9 years
you're right, it probably wasn't wrong, i just assumed it was wrong before reading it because you and a bevy of others have been aggressively wrong in this thread. however, that post wasn't wrong it just made no sense
random (no read) shooting is an action that will affect your win condition in a way that is impossible to determine before doing it. therefore it can't be "playing to win" (aiming for mafia). whether that deserves to be the same as "throwing the game" is entirely up in the air for me, but under the current rules, it is.
deletedover 9 years
deletedover 9 years
but, that just ended my short posting hiatus and sitting back and negging people who are dumb, because they cannot grasp how hipfiring = gamethrowing.
