Epicmafia

Should hip-firing be GT?

over 9 years

This is not a complaint thread.

No mods have been injured in the making of this thread.

Parental discretion advised: contains gun violence.

I originally filed an appeal against Mist, mistakenly believing that hip-firing being GT was the precedent ruling. I had this mistaken assumption because the last time I was active on this site, that was the case.

It is now clear that my actual appeal is against the current precedent. Mist was merely basing the verdict on current precedent, and has made no mistake in handling the original report

To me this seems like a very black/white scenario. Shooting a gun for the sake of shooting a gun is a clear indication that you do not care about the outcome of the game. If you cared about the outcome of the game, you would try to shoot in such a way that benefits town.

The current precedent treats hip-firing as trolling. Is there any merit in this? Is someone who randomly fires a gun trying to antagonize anyone, or is it that they do not care about winning?

Helsinki has taken the bold stand against the current precedent, and I imagine that moderators are discussing this among themselves before the next vote is cast.

Lets help them make the right decision. >>>>>>>>>

Should hip-firing (shooting with no reads) be considered Game-throwing?

Yes

deletedover 9 years

VictoriaEldor says

Slow says

VictoriaEldor says

If there is no reason to use town resources, it is wasting a resource. It is essentially the same as a Doctor wasting a night action when they're safe to use it.

doc not docing isn't gamethrowing. hope this helps.

If there is no threat to the Doctor, but their ability can save a town; not using their ability to potentially save a town, is a throw.

Shut-Up

VictoriaEldor

over 9 years

Slow says

VictoriaEldor says

If there is no reason to use town resources, it is wasting a resource. It is essentially the same as a Doctor wasting a night action when they're safe to use it.

doc not docing isn't gamethrowing. hope this helps.

If there is no threat to the Doctor, but their ability can save a town; not using their ability to potentially save a town, is a throw.

deletedover 9 years

Glacial says

You have no scumhunting done when shooting as vig n1.

when there's a setup with vig in comp you can bring this argument up

Clair

over 9 years

even claiming mafia as unconfirmed mafia can benefit your side, in the right situation. theoretically, your continued presence could breadcrumb town's way to your partnership

deletedover 9 years

47%

deletedover 9 years

You have no scumhunting done when shooting as vig n1.

Aesop

over 9 years

mafia has layers, like a wedding cake

deletedover 9 years

imo, nothing can be concluded as objective gamethrowing besides claiming mafia as mafia when you are not confirmed. that's just imo.

Clair

over 9 years

when does it stop being gamethrowing, devante? 40% in your favour? 50%? 60%?

deletedover 9 years

Connor says

my conclusion is that you can't count hipfiring as objectively gamethrowing. that was not my opinion before this thread

"there's no real answer" = "there's no real applicable violation"

but u can count it as gamethrowing because it is gamethrowing

Sims

over 9 years

my conclusion is Let's Play VDLI

deletedover 9 years

at the end of the day hipfiring without reads is gamethrowing since you cannot be playing to win shooting mafia when you only have a 30% chance in 9/10 setups of achieving that

also intuition 30 seconds into the day isn't scum hunting soda, stop

Clair

over 9 years

my conclusion is that you can't count hipfiring as objectively gamethrowing. that was not my opinion before this thread

"there's no real answer" = "there's no real applicable violation"

deletedover 9 years

Satan says

Slow says

i'm a butt doctor, and i'm here to say that you're all in pain.

butt doctor we need an emrgency butt transfer

*grabs stethoscope for butts* on my way

deletedover 9 years

connor you do a good job of writing really long posts then concluding that you have no real opinion on the matter.

it's sorta like when arcbell makes long pastebins then says there isn't enough evidence to prove whether the person cheated or didn't cheat.

Satan

over 9 years

Slow says

i'm a butt doctor, and i'm here to say that you're all in pain.

butt doctor we need an emrgency butt transfer

Clair

over 9 years

i hope that post was coherent. or someone cares to read it, because i liked writing it

deletedover 9 years

i'm a butt doctor, and i'm here to say that you're all in pain.

Sims

over 9 years

i'm no doctor

Satan

over 9 years

Sims says

i'd like to remove more than one player from my games

remove deez nuts

deletedover 9 years

In most cases doc not doccing isn't gt*

deletedover 9 years

ok delete this thread

Sims

over 9 years

i'd like to remove more than one player from my games

Clair

over 9 years

so then we reconsider why we have this call to arms in the first place. the war against hipfiring exists because it is, or was, a common occurrence in high level games. if reverse mafia was comped and played as popularly as A&D is, would we start handing out violations to the vigs who shoot n1? of course not. they were rolling a dice that was weighted in their favour. so who are we to decide what weightings are allowed?

the answer is that there isn't one. hipfiring can't be compared to copied mechanics, because copied mechanics is banned to prevent direct unfair advantages to the user. hipfiring isn't an unfair advantage to the user. it's unfair disadvantage to the target. but so is getting vig'd n1. so is getting checked n1. it's comparable to too many things that EM couldn't really exist without. you cannot draw a line

deletedover 9 years

VictoriaEldor says

If there is no reason to use town resources, it is wasting a resource. It is essentially the same as a Doctor wasting a night action when they're safe to use it.

doc not docing isn't gamethrowing. hope this helps.