Epicmafia

deletedover 9 years

Whether anyone agrees or not, I don't understand how making a new rule will solve anything. If you're going to make a violation for "Hip-fire", then you need to make violations for "Random Lynching"

deletedover 9 years

Connor fails to notice that post was a reply to Steven, who first brought up "pre-Hipfiring" days. I suggest a rapid trip to specsavers is on order.

deletedover 9 years

it always baffles me when people are against the idea of clarifying the rules. it's something i see the same people saying all the time, and it's usually for reasons like "well, we tried something vaguely similar 4 years ago and it didn't work" or "clarifying the rules will just create new gray area for all the master trolls that want to work within the gray area"

Clair

over 9 years

my 2nd-favourite lashka posts are the ones where he provides a history of rules and violations and such without actually providing a solid input, in order to show his veterancy. my 1st-favourite posts are the ones where he shamelessly shows he has leaked information, in order to show his relevance

Steven

over 9 years

Lashka says

Hipfiring got banned pretty much as soon as A&D got popular, and before that gs was barely used, thus irrelevant.

Which is funny because you can't really hipfire in A/D when there's usually plenty of D1 reads

azu20

over 9 years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44XWB99ts8E

blank

over 9 years

why are u men arguing about a button on a mafia simulator

deletedover 9 years

Steven says

words. 2k characters

1) arguing that everyone who shoots early in the day doesnt care about winning is untrue
2) "not caring about winning" falls more under gamethrowing than trolling, seeing as trolling, as written, directly relates to your interaction with another player. in some circumstances you may care about the act of trolling more than winning, but that's a separate argument
3) hipfiring is the specific example being used here because of the prevalence of gun setups on the site, but in an ideal world i wouldn't have an issue with an all-purpose mechanics violation in place of a hipfiring one. unfortunately, many of the other game mechanics just arent widely understood enough on the site to be punishable in that way
4) the only way a hipfiring rule would result in more violations is if people who got hipfiring violations didn't learn from their previous hipfiring violations, and people that consistently break the same rule in spite of punishment are the ones we're trying to remove from the site anyway. anyone who cares about staying and cares about preserving the integrity of the game will learn from a single violation.

Clair

over 9 years

Rutab says

BiIIStickers says

the thing is, what you would've done and what reads you had here aren't the issue, because ultimately YOU know that you had reads. no one else does unless you communicate them. sometimes communicating them is suboptimal within the confines of the game but necessary to avoid a violation, and that's a problem.

Usually people don't just shoot once their ready after being silent for the whole game.

sometimes that's optimal. that's his point

deletedover 9 years

Hipfiring got banned pretty much as soon as A&D got popular, and before that gs was barely used, thus irrelevant.

deletedover 9 years

BiIIStickers says

the thing is, what you would've done and what reads you had here aren't the issue, because ultimately YOU know that you had reads. no one else does unless you communicate them. sometimes communicating them is suboptimal within the confines of the game but necessary to avoid a violation, and that's a problem.

What do you define as communication? Usually people don't just shoot once their ready after being silent for the whole game. Most people at least try to scumhunt before they shoot. Asking someone for a claim before you shoot isn't the automatic "hey, he scumhunted, and now he wants to shoot". I think if you actively try to find the mafia and still shoot without claims, there's no way it was a hipfire

Also, if you can explain your reads as soon as you shoot, you can prove it wasn't a hipfire. Nobody really shoots without speaking to the town anyways, I think, but even in that situation it's easily provable

Scumlord

over 9 years

next round we should comp a 6 sheriff 3 sniper set up

Renaldo

over 9 years

Rutab says

Renaldo says

Rutab says

Renaldo says

Rutab says

Shooting without claims is not game throwing, shooting without reads is game throwing

no, that's hipfiring.

no, it's not

you can shoot quickly at the start of the day with full intent to win. Most people argue that you can't have a read that early into the day, which is why they get reported for hipfiring.

but that's a hipfire, because you werent aiming for the mafia, because you could have NO reads shooting into the beginning of the day

there is literally a 0% chance you have ANY reads, so it's a hipfire

some people can get reads off of an opening line.

deletedover 9 years

Because splitting rules is a dumb idea.

Source: The old 'Fakeclaiming' rule.

Scumlord

over 9 years

the mod meta on this site is anyone who shoots d1 and doesn't hit mafia and also doesn't ask for a claim is an auto hipfire vio. and that ladies and gentlemen is stupid af.

deletedover 9 years

You just show up at high noon with yer' gun and start firing hoping u hit one a' dem mafers.

Clair

over 9 years

there's a different between wanting to win and trying to win. yall throw around the word[s] "intent[ to win]" like they can just be applied anywhere

Steven

over 9 years

Connor says

Steven says

I for one think lucid was right to say hipfiring isn't GT most of the time. The people doing it aren't usually playing against their win condition, they just don't care about the outcome, which fits much better in trolling

do u read. lucid doesn't care about the actual definitions of the rules. it's just that GT had hella harsh punishments and didn't like it

I also didn't say anything otherwise? I'm saying I agree with lucids definition regardless of his motive.

Back in the day when it was ok to hipfire you'd see many people doing it and then later playing to win and winning the game. I don't see how you could say they were GTing. It would be more logical to say they were trolling for the fun of it and then going back to win the game

deletedover 9 years

Rutab says

Renaldo says

Rutab says

Renaldo says

Rutab says

Shooting without claims is not game throwing, shooting without reads is game throwing

no, that's hipfiring.

no, it's not

you can shoot quickly at the start of the day with full intent to win. Most people argue that you can't have a read that early into the day, which is why they get reported for hipfiring.

but that's a hipfire, because you werent aiming for the mafia, because you could have NO reads shooting into the beginning of the day

there is literally a 0% chance you have ANY reads, so it's a hipfire

Even if you don't have any reads, it doesn't mean your intent is to lose.

BlackBattler

over 9 years

sup

I'm here to beat the dead horse wif u guys. I got the tenderizer and everything

Renaldo

over 9 years

considering most people report people directly for "hipfiring" as opposed to "trolling via hipfire", I don't see why having it's own rule with a clearer definition is a bad thing.

deletedover 9 years

Renaldo says

Rutab says

Renaldo says

Rutab says

Shooting without claims is not game throwing, shooting without reads is game throwing

no, that's hipfiring.

no, it's not

you can shoot quickly at the start of the day with full intent to win. Most people argue that you can't have a read that early into the day, which is why they get reported for hipfiring.

but that's a hipfire, because you werent aiming for the mafia, because you could have NO reads shooting into the beginning of the day

there is literally a 0% chance you have ANY reads, so it's a hipfire

deletedover 9 years

Faker says

Surskit says

Sheriff can easily he was just "shooting for hooker", when the game barely started.

And it works too, scum reports sheriff for hipfiring and its a no vio

Not enough content generated to garner a read, realistically. So that isn't an excuse.

Say that to the tons of scum reports that didnt go through. One time Hooker fake ccd sheriff and just 2 seconds after was shot.

This was like 2 min into the game lmfao

deletedover 9 years

Rutab says

BiIIStickers says

Rutab says

I think hipfiring would be fine if it just stayed under game throwing, because usually if you hipfire, you have no intent to win

even if you did have intent to win, you're not playing toward your win condition, and i dont know how you could argue that you were if you just hipfired

if you hipfire the hooker and put town in autowin, how can you be gamethrowing? you just won the game for your alignment.

but if you shot a pr instead, it would be considered game throwing? you had no intent to win if you just hipfire

and again, i dont think shooting without claims is game throwing , it's shooting without reads

I've shot without claims before, sometimes I hit PR, sometimes I hit mafia, but I had reads, so it's not game throwing

@Bill, but why was the gun hipfired in the first place?

you're contradicting yourself. it can't be both gamethrowing and not gamethrowing.

the thing is, what you would've done and what reads you had here aren't the issue, because ultimately YOU know that you had reads. no one else does unless you communicate them. sometimes communicating them is suboptimal within the confines of the game but necessary to avoid a violation, and that's a problem.

Clair

over 9 years

Steven says

I for one think lucid was right to say hipfiring isn't GT most of the time. The people doing it aren't usually playing against their win condition, they just don't care about the outcome, which fits much better in trolling

do u read. lucid doesn't care about the actual definitions of the rules. it's just that GT had hella harsh punishments and didn't like it

Round 278 Discussion

Congratulations to the winners of Round 269!