well, we're already shouting into a windtunnel w/r/t the violation that kaylag was unjustly handed, so i'd like to come up with some sort of solution that prevents it from ever happening again.
deletedover 9 years
I'm so glad this is still going on
deletedover 9 years
i've already made the argument that kaylag didnt hipfire
what kaylag DEFINITELY didn't do was troll or gamethrow, though
that's fair, although I think if their attitude is poor anyway they would have justifiable cause for a trolling vio. I totally see what you mean here though.
I believe those intentions aren't hipfires at all, though. I mean, they shouldn't be defined as such in the rules. If the person has good intentions it's not trolling, which is what I've been saying all this time
deletedover 9 years
the first half of your post is inaccurate because people who feel they were "hipfired" report nearly every single game that it happens in already
i'm rolling my eyes at the second half of your post because this isn't creating a new way to skirt rules with the 8 vio hardcap already in place, you made my case for me
By defining it as "before they talk" it deviates from the true problem for 2 reasons
Like I said before, the shooting via PoE and reports etc can be justified. If the person thinks they're mafia, he should be able to shoot them
The other is that even if the person has talked years it doesn't even matter in terms of the other person still hipfiring them. Trolls will just wait until they have talked "enough" and then shoot them, and I feel that having such a clause will only make mods focus on what's not important (amount of text/ time) rather than what is (attitude of the player)
Advertising a rule like that strengthens people's opinions on it. Right now, they don't think there's much chance of getting a vio/refund from hipfiring. Give it it's own rule and 50% of shots will get reported.
The other counter-argument is the trolls who currently just get 3 GT vios and go bye Having those vios split up so they can get more and ruin more games. Though it's rare, user80 was the classic example of this with his 2 GT, 2 trolling, 2 GRS, 2 Fakeclaiming, 2 ISP etc etc. Pretty much the entire reason the 8 vio ban came in. And people do still do it.
deletedover 9 years
Mods are sods.
deletedover 9 years
the ultimate issue here is that i don't believe hipfiring is trolling. i believe you can "hipfire" with 100% good intentions, much like kaylag did in the game that started this discussion.
yeah, that's why it's important the rule is well-written and that the definition of a hipfire is well established.
It should include shooting without reads (ie immediately at daystart) or before being able to read someone. What you don't want is for a shot without claims later in the day to go down as a hipfire, because that person had reads and played to win, they were just wrong.
deletedover 9 years
That's kind of stupid imo because if you think someone is mafia, you should shoot them, regardless if everyone has talked
I feel like just adding "Examples include shooting a gun without any reads or strategy" for trolling and "shooting someone when you think doing so will hinder your chances of winning" for gamethrowing would do enough of clearing up
deletedover 9 years
But the habits are strategies, everything is pretty much a strategy
give me an example of a "bad habit" in a gun setup
deletedover 9 years
in fact, the only potential downside i see depends on how the rule is written. if the rule were to say "cant shoot until everyone has spoken or at least 5 minutes have passed" then people would be given an opportunity to waste 5 minutes of everyone's time before talking, but i feel like that's such a small case that would come up extremely rarely that i'm not even sure it's worth addressing
of course, but the "don't shoot before they talk rule" helps prevent people from firing immediately at day start.
I suppose you could say shooting a guilty report before they can defend themselves is justified, but it's also bad because it could be mafia faking a guilty as well.
