can we do this? gunsmith has been around for years and there has never been an objectively good gun setup, and thats because guns are horrible for competitive. Giving one person the ability to remove another from the game is a terrible idea for competitions and is ridiculously easy to throw games/troll with. Yeah, guns are fun but fun has never been the #1 priority for the competition and variety has never been a factor when deciding to ban the dozens of roles and setups that arent allowed to be made competitive.
1) People like gun-setups because they result in quick deaths and therefore, faster games. Giving one person absolute control over a game is actually a pretty stupid thing to do because the entire game would depend on the skill set of that one person and not the entire town's efforts.
2) This is false. One dumb townie doesn't have as big of a negative impact on a game in normals than it does in gun setups.
3) Again, that isn't as indicative of someones skill as is general manipulation. It could also lead to easy meta abuse since you're eliminated out of the potential shots.
But, I agree
The balance that the competition has at the moment is ideal and nothing should be done to unnecessarily alter that right now.
The thing is clears can be CC'd but not who the gun has. But I suppose that's why setups like VDLI are also up there in popularity, since mafia never claims PR (although the PRs share control there so it's not quite there)
deletedalmost 10 years
Dang you just made it hit me. We focus more on competitiveness and doing it all by books with a set way to play things over and over and winning trophies other than prioritizing fun.
It's funny cuz fun actually is or should be the #1 priority, something which is sad if people disagree.
And variety has been a factor. That's why we had special rounds and that's why lucid always made role requirements. Epic mafia is "epic" mafia exactly because it's diversity. That's how it's marketed at the homepage, after all. If it were any different, and the competition strived to be a complete scumhunt, anything not dawn start would be banned.
And rutab, I have no clue why you think I would disagree with a vague statement like "quality over quantity" which is what you're saying. I'll only have your because of what you imply, that quality is somehow correlated with unpopularity, when its the complete opposite. You should be advocating things that appeal to your target audience, /that's/ quality and quantity, whether you in particular like it or not. Traffic is how EM makes it's money, not by becoming a site that people find a chore to play in just because it's more pure-mafia oriented. A valid point would be to say that popularity would rise in the future but considering you didn't say this at all I'll refrain from commenting on how I feel about that
No bronto people like gun setups because they provide more control over the outcome than regular setups do.
In gun setups, you have to focus on convincing one person (or yourself) of who is the mafia. In normal games, one dumb townie, no matter who it is, can flip a lynch the wrong way. In gun setups, all you have to worry is that that one person doesn't become that one dumb townie.
They provide a way to use more of "specific" persuasion, as in, specific to one person, focusing on manipulating them in particular, rather than "general" persuasion where you have to worry about everyone and what they each will think about what you say. This happens only usually until 3 way lylo in regular setups. A lot of people like said feeling of being able to more easily move the direction of the game
Plus there's also the chance that you become that person that has the gun and therefore, have the absolute control over one lynch.
This round also lasted 13 days, which is more than typical 9-11 day rounds.
Some people genuinely enjoy gun setups and find them fun. I'm more of the mindset that people play gun setups because they're less skill oriented and it's easier to get carried. They're also typically a bit quicker than non-gun games.
A lot of the roles that aren't popular aren't popular because they're not meant for serious mafia, and other roles do their jobs better. I believe most of them were made for Sandbox, which is why I didn't think adding all of the roles to Main Lobby was really needed.
As far as your concern of guns becoming unbearably popular, there are still a lot of people who share your mindset and refuse to play them. This round is a really good example of that.
Quallity of games will improve if the rules are more solid :) People can troll and shoot unpunished by the rules :P
deletedalmost 10 years
A true "pro" or even "decent" mafia player can win under any circumstances, not just the ones they prefer.
It's part of the game. If you don't like it, don't play in set ups with guns. Don't ban them for everyone else who might enjoy them.
deletedalmost 10 years
I'm not saying I'd want to ban guns or not, but I'd always choose to improve the quality of game play ovet how active the competition is. Steven will probably have my head in a single post after saying that but I think it's way more important. I would like to play some good games rather than a bunch of crappy ones.
deletedalmost 10 years
there are hundreds of roles but i never see anyone attempting to use them in the competition. what would banning guns from the competition remove, 4 roles and about 5~ bad setups that are rotated in and out?
deletedalmost 10 years
way back when, lucid used to impose requirements that the comp setups for the round had to have, like "one setup has to have a fool" or whatever. i liked that idea and wouldn't be against the mods doing something like that.
deletedalmost 10 years
there are plenty of ways to increase variety without needing to resort to guns. and the above was true near the end of competitive lobby, but its also true for a lot of setups.
Take the guns away and get left with the same 6-10 setups getting comped. I much like the variety, it's a new element at play and I see it used properly more often than it's used to throw/troll.
deletedalmost 10 years
calvin -- its the same way competitive lobby started until guns began to creep up in popularity. if nothing is done until guns become unbearably overused like in the last year of competitive lobby, it will become out of control and nothing will be able to be done about it because too many people will be upset.
deletedalmost 10 years
round 248 had no guns, while round 251, 240, 238 and 232 all had guns yet round 248 had more people join the competition than the others??
deletedalmost 10 years
The top like 5-6 players have ran on b2ns, i mean i don't really see a&r really viciously dominating over b2ns., it's been pretty balanced and i think that's healthy for the competition in the main lobby.
deletedalmost 10 years
this setup is not fun, where is the gunsmith?
deletedalmost 10 years
quote me people who joined the competition because of guns
