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Training Lobby Change Proposals

Bumpers
over 10 years

Hi training lobby. I haven’t properly introduced myself here but you’ll know TheBrontosaurus well as your lobby owner. One of the things we want to improve on EpicMafia considerably is the harmony and synergy of other lobbies, and give players old and new many different ventures on the site.

One of the stumbling blocks that we have is finding a way to keep training running the way it is, whilst also not making it exploited by point farming with new users who wish to play the game.

I’ve made a thread in competitive which I hope you take time to look at too which has more ideas that can make their way to this lobby, it can be found here.

https://epicmafia.com/topic/63209

So what are the ideas that we have for training?

1) Lobby rename

One issue that’s easy to notice with training is that it has lost its meaning for most of the players in this lobby. We don’t wish to splinter another lobby for new players only, but would like to rename it to something more appropriate. At the moment the leading name is Casual, but I realize that there is an online stigma behind this. If you can think of better names, please let us know.

2) 10K points cap

One of the problems with training is users using it to farm up points. There’s been a lot of aggressive suggestions on how to fix this, one method we had very long ago was forcing people to join comp lobby once they reached a certain threshold. We do not want that to happen again, but we also do not want point farming by playing with newer users.

What does this mean if implemented? It means that once you reach 10000 points in Training/New name pending, you won’t earn more points for future wins you have. We think this is a generous amount to deter point-farming, but you are still fully free to play in the lobby unrestricted if you wish. Stats and other achievements will still be viable and tracked.

3) Greater input with moderators

One bias we notice is how most new moderators are picked from competitive. We realize that most mods have been picked from the comp lobby in the past, however we certainly want to embrace new variation when we look for new moderators in the certain future. If you’re ever interested in being one, feel free to PM an application for it to be reviewed.

Finishing notes

I realize this might look like a forced attempt to boost competitive player numbers. Partially, it is, but I hope you check out the comp thread too if you would like to see more information.There are news ideas in that thread that will be added to training too. Please give any feedback you have, thanks again.

SyphruM
over 10 years

Steven says

I'll say it again. Delete comp, bring back training competitions to compensate with a point requirement to stop GT alts and cheating, no changes to the red hearts.


Unless different setups are comp'd, I don't believe this would solve much. If anything, comp games would take longer to fill due to there being many more games going on at once, getting each pushed further down the pages.
Jupiter
over 10 years
It's more of an incentive to get new players to try out the rest of the site. We aren't restricting anybody from playing in Training with these changes, but a lot of new players stay in Training after joining without being exposed to the rest of the site. This includes Comp, but also Sandbox, Games, Survivor, etc. As much as we dislike people playing 3000 games of Classic Mafia and Fancy Pants we aren't here to decide whether they should or not, which is why the only thing we're restricting is point payouts. I personally think it's more unfair to the new players to only be exposed to those two setups.

Side note: as a moderator, I see a LOT more harassment and hateful comments reports coming from Training than Competitive. Just something to think about.
Satan
over 10 years

TheVigil says

I guess my big question is whats the problem with how it is now? If players stop playing competitive maybe its a sign they don't want to play competitive. Forcing us to do something not only wont work but will result in backlash...we've had enough players leave as it is.


As a mentor are you saying you don't want to help your mentees become better so they can play more complex setups? Moving to different lobbies doesn't affect them in any other way besides moving to a different lobby. Their games won't be restricted in the new competitive lobby (as i understand it at least)
EmmerrLouise
over 10 years
So what if they play FP and classic mafia? It's their choice.

The issue is you're coming up with ways to move players into comp when they don't WANT to move to comp. If players are perfectly happy to play FP all day, good for them - why is that an 'issue'? Forcing comp lobby upon players isn't the solution - particularly when many players in training don't want to move. If they did, surely they'd have moved to comp by now?
Steven
over 10 years
I'll say it again. Delete comp, bring back training competitions to compensate with a point requirement to stop GT alts and cheating, no changes to the red hearts.
TheVigil
over 10 years

SyphruM says

Personally, the reason I stay in training over competitive is due to the setup choice. "Rude" players isn't much of a bother at all. I simply prefer to stick with my choices of classic, FP, FT3, and shot in the dark. I do not care how "overly-simplified" they may be, I find them enjoyable. Also, scumhunting as well as strats do apply in these setups.

I believe there would be so much potential for a training-like lobby with all ranked setups playable, whether it be merged with comp or an entirely new lobby. It doesn't have to involve rounds, ranks, or any of that sort. It just has to work with the w/l pie, have a barrier to enter, and have set lives for the day.


Exactly, Why not do away with the FAKE progression system all together and play simply to enjoy the game.

And yes EM progression system is fake in every aspect.
CharlesMark
over 10 years
it seems like the big issue is setup selection. if you dont want to delete comp and move competitions to a unified lobby then why dont you try mod comping simple setups every round?
TheVigil
over 10 years
I guess my big question is whats the problem with how it is now? If players stop playing competitive maybe its a sign they don't want to play competitive. Forcing us to do something not only wont work but will result in backlash...we've had enough players leave as it is.
SyphruM
over 10 years
Personally, the reason I stay in training over competitive is due to the setup choice. "Rude" players isn't much of a bother at all. I simply prefer to stick with my choices of classic, FP, FT3, and shot in the dark. I do not care how "overly-simplified" they may be, I find them enjoyable. Also, scumhunting as well as strats do apply in these setups.

I believe there would be so much potential for a training-like lobby with all ranked setups playable, whether it be merged with comp or an entirely new lobby. It doesn't have to involve rounds, ranks, or any of that sort. It just has to work with the w/l pie, have a barrier to enter, and have set lives for the day.
Satan
over 10 years
THIS IS WHAT TRAINING WAS ORIGINALLY FOR:

players would join epicmafia --> they would play in training until they got the hang of it --> they would move to competitive lobby and play setups there that are comp'd --> they would join the competition in competitive lobby.

when people stopped joining competitive lobby, they made their own little clique. Therefore they look down on anyone who is new there. Training lobby made their own little clique in training lobby, and no one joins comp lobby anymore because people don't realize if enough of you training players join the comp lobby you'll all be in the same games and might not even have to deal with the comp players.

there was never a plan for training lobby to become it's own lobby. It was supposed to TRAIN players, but instead they played fancy pants and classic mafia.
Jupiter
over 10 years
We've already tried to have an intermediate-level lobby. It devolved into people pointfarming Shot in the Dark and just didn't work out. We're just looking to move training players into comp so there isn't as much of a divide between lobbies. If you guys come to comp you'll be playing with each other as much as you'll be playing with the "rude" comp players (which I don't think are very rude at all). A lot of players from other lobbies that come to Comp enjoy it a lot. Uprizzle, someone who's never played in Comp before placed 5th this competitive round and (as far as I know) enjoyed playing there.
Satan
over 10 years

warstolrem says

I find the players in the competitive lobby down right rude, therefore, I will continue to play in the training lobby, I believe there should be a lobby like the training lobby for ranked matches of mid level players while capping off the ranked matches in the training lobby to people under 2000 or so points.


that would divide the site further and is completely against what the administrators are trying to do. Like I said, if any changes were to happen, the training players are the majority so therefore it would not affect training players as much as the competitive players.
warstolrem
over 10 years
I find the players in the competitive lobby down right rude, therefore, I will continue to play in the training lobby, I believe there should be a lobby like the training lobby for ranked matches of mid level players while capping off the ranked matches in the training lobby to people under 2000 or so points.
EmmerrLouise
over 10 years
I didn't say they weren't competitive? In fact, I was suggesting that anyone who plays for points IS competitive - they want the competitive aspect of games without the stress and negativity of comp lobby.

iirc, the rounds of competition we had in training weren't nearly as brutal nor 'intimidating' as the rounds are in comp lobby. Maybe this was my personal experience?
Satan
over 10 years

CharlesMark says

that still doesn't answer why a non competitive player would care about points.


Who knows. All I know is if someone is mad about this affecting their point farming abilities, their opinion is invalid.


Bumpers and thebrontosaurus says

We think this is a generous amount to deter point-farming, but you are still fully free to play in the lobby unrestricted if you wish.


As stated by the administrators Bumpers and thebrontosaurus, they want to make a change to deter the pointfarmers. This whole change is due to those people who stay in training lobby to pointfarm and absolutely refuse to move into competitive lobby.
TheVigil
over 10 years

Satan says


Trepur349 says


Satan says

Everyone in this thread has some weird theory that this is going to affect them at all....there are literally 5x the amount of people in training than there are in comp lobby. There is literally no reason to think that their mentality will still be something you'll have to deal with.


1) Limiting the amount of points I can get on fancy pants IS going to affect me.
2) Capping the amount of points I can get in the training lobby IS going to affect me.
3) Futile attempts to try and get me to join competitions IS going to effect me.


adapt to the change or leave. your single narrow minded opinion isn't the type of opinion this site needs. Oh you can't play your precious overly simplistic setup to get points, poor you.


There's no need to be mean. He simply stated his opinion which is what this topic is for.
CharlesMark
over 10 years
that still doesn't answer why a non competitive player would care about points.
Satan
over 10 years

Trepur349 says


Satan says

Everyone in this thread has some weird theory that this is going to affect them at all....there are literally 5x the amount of people in training than there are in comp lobby. There is literally no reason to think that their mentality will still be something you'll have to deal with.


1) Limiting the amount of points I can get on fancy pants IS going to affect me.
2) Capping the amount of points I can get in the training lobby IS going to affect me.
3) Futile attempts to try and get me to join competitions IS going to effect me.


adapt to the change or leave. your single narrow minded opinion isn't the type of opinion this site needs. Oh you can't play your precious overly simplistic setup to get points, poor you.
EmmerrLouise
over 10 years
Ranked games are essentially competitive without all the rage and pressure of comp games. Unranked games commonly experience GRS, vegging, trolling and players who are new (unranked is a 'safe haven' to practice in). Ranked, in theory, shouldn't suffer from much of the above as it's ranked.

As to why this is even a thing to be discussed though, I have no idea.
Satan
over 10 years

Trepur349 says


Satan says

Everyone in this thread has some weird theory that this is going to affect them at all....there are literally 5x the amount of people in training than there are in comp lobby. There is literally no reason to think that their mentality will still be something you'll have to deal with.


1) Limiting the amount of points I can get on fancy pants IS going to affect me.
2) Capping the amount of points I can get in the training lobby IS going to affect me.
3) Futile attempts to try and get me to join competitions IS going to effect me.


lmfao.
Trepur349
over 10 years
Charles, I don't want to play in rounds, I like playing ranked cause it gives the incentive to try hard (The number of people who say 'Who cares, it isn't ranked' in unranked games). I don't want to play in competitions or have overly complex set-ups.
CharlesMark
over 10 years
why would it effect you? why would you even care about points if you arnt competitive?

see this is why the whole situation is disturbing. competitive people arnt playing comp. something is very wrong
Trepur349
over 10 years

Satan says

Everyone in this thread has some weird theory that this is going to affect them at all....there are literally 5x the amount of people in training than there are in comp lobby. There is literally no reason to think that their mentality will still be something you'll have to deal with.


1) Limiting the amount of points I can get on fancy pants IS going to affect me.
2) Capping the amount of points I can get in the training lobby IS going to affect me.
3) Futile attempts to try and get me to join competitions IS going to effect me.
Satan
over 10 years
Everyone in this thread has some weird theory that this is going to affect them at all....there are literally 5x the amount of people in training than there are in comp lobby. There is literally no reason to think that their mentality will still be something you'll have to deal with.
Steven
over 10 years

CharlesMark says

just delete comp

and rename training to MAIN

then add a comp to main with a point requirement


/claps