Anyone not in the game (including mods) is not allowed to tell you how to play this setup. If you think a certain action is playing towards your win condition, you have every right to take that action. However, there are certain situations where you must follow follow some rules. Asking people to read this thread during the game is NOT OGI.
If you have to choose between two options in the game and those options will lead to 1) certain loss or 2) even a 0.000001% chance to win, you must do #2. It is gamethrowing to do #1. Example scenarios are below:
For the purposes of this guide, SCUM = Spy/Stalker/Killer
1: You are Hunter/Agent/Vigilante/Jailer in a 3-way with Killer & Spy/Stalker:
Voting anything other than "no lynch" IS GT.
If you are Jailer, and you no lynch, jailing either of them IS GT.
If you are Vigilante, and you no lynch, shooting at night is NOT GT. If killer kills mafia and mafia no kills, you can only win by shooting killer.
2: You are Hunter/Agent/Vigilante/Jailer in a 4-way with Killer and Spy/Stalker:
If Vigilante and one other town are alive, and the town thinks that scum does not know who the vig is, then lynching mafia is NOT GT.
If Vigilante is not alive or if scum knows the vigilante, then voting anything other than "no lynch" IS GT.
If you no lynch, and you are Vigilante, then shooting at night is NOT GT.
If you NL, and you are Jailer, and Vigilante is known by scum or is dead, then jailing anyone IS GT.
3: 5-way with 2 scum alive:
Lynching known hunter IS GT.
If you know a scum, then no lynching IS GT, because you can lynch one scum that day and another tomorrow instead of going into 4- or 3- way with 2 scum.
If you lynch on a 5 way, then shooting as Vig is NOT GT.
If you NL, then jailing or jailkilling is NOT GT.
If you are lynched as Hunter, Vig is dead or known to scum, and killer/a mafia role are alive, then shooting as hunter IS GT.
4: If you are scum in a 3-way involving Killer, Mafia, Town:
Lynching Hunter is NOT GT. But it is against the win condition of the Hunter to lynch. Therefore, the Hunter will propose to NL, otherwise they will shoot you. This puts you at a greater risk. You can then make a pact with the other scum and NL and kill the Hunter at night. It is NOT GT to betray or to not betray even though you get a higher payout if you betray and kill the other scum. It is a choice you can make to maximize your payout over several games by setting up your meta that you do not betray.
Lynching the other scum is NOT GT if the town is voting with you.
I've likely missed some stuff, so mods please comment any other scenarios with rules to be enforced and I can add them. There are many other scenarios where some actions are suboptimal, but they are subjective to the situation, so we cannot pre define rules for them.
deletedabout 5 years
since people are so nitpicky about not betraying, i make sure i betray every time because odds are im not going to have someone betray me bc they are too scared of me.
deletedabout 5 years
i said it last time and i repeat it, memehunt MUST be made anon if it's comped again.
The GT rules is one thing, but this setup allows people to throw h r o w against one another too easily also betrayal is another can of worms when known runners get involved
Here to completely disprove the decades of thought put into this thread and all otherwise incredible game-tips with the 3 magical words: "Gamethrow requires intent" <3
As I explained. Mafia and killer will not nl if they want to joint. They will split votes. If they nl then they are giving jailer choice to kill one of mafia and killer so they can win solo. So if there are 3 or more votes on nl, jailing killer or mafia means you are throwing.
Jailer cant tell which is mafia and which is killer. So the jailer will pick the player they want to throw against. Vig shooting is different. It does not stop anyone from taking their own action. They can kill one scum and other scum can still die. Their role is defined that way. Vig can only shoot one. You need to understand the roles first and what their actions do. And jailing vig is a different thing. My rule only applies to jailing mafia or killer when vig is dead or known. Jailer can jail vig to protect them. If hunter has identified the killer then jailer can confirm with alive vig to shoot killer and jailkill the mafia.
even IF jailer decides not to jail and that person kills the other scum, town still loses. my point is, if you don't jail, you're relying on the chance that BOTH scums betray each other, whereas if you do jail you only need one scum to betray to win
deletedabout 5 years
4th place, time to feature manhunt hahahahaha
deletedabout 5 years
I also regret playing this out of laziness instead of waiting for b2s to fill. Oh well.
What if jailor jails vigil to save him? It's not kingmaker, scum can betray and even try hitting vigil. Even more, when there's jailer, hunter/agent, killer and stalker/spy, how is jailing the hunter/agent GT?
And when I put cases that it's optimal to lynch or jail for mafia so vigil can safely kill the killer, you answer that it's GT because it's playing kingmaker but when vigil hits one of scum, it's not GT. But it's also playing kingmaker for the vigil when picking one of scum to shoot to make sure he dies and loses the game if mafia doesn't target the vigil.
After paying attention to d8-d10, i think this setup is wayy too easy for people to THROW against other ppl, with the fact that with 3 parties and 5 nightkilling roles, you can dispatch someone n2 easily, at which point you put them in near/total autoloss no matter what their alignment is.
The fact that this setup is a glorified coinflip pointfarm is another issue.
I'm asking the mods to consider only accepting this setup as anonymous (colors to avoid cancer games) for future rounds.
The problem here is that when both killer and mafia are known, and you pick one of them to jailkill it means you are playing kingmaker. We are not allowed to pick which scum to kill. You are also preventing the jailed person from killing the other scum. The problem here is that people will always pick based on grudge and justify it by saying that they hoped the other guy would hit the jailed scum.
See, the scum will nl with jailer alive only to get the jailer to play king maker. If you nl for jailing means the scum knows that one of them is jailed.
This is because the scum can easily put two votes on a town and force nl which will disallow jailer to jail. So if they are nling, they are doing it for jailer to kill one scum so the other scum can kill a town and get solo win.
This will happen a lot for runners. The players will help their favoured person to win solo or will throw against a runner. So the rule stays as is.
Thanks a lot for brainstorming on this and discussing. I hope you are convinced. If not we can discuss further. I hope I have explained based on intent of scum to nl or force split.
In a 4 way with jailer, town, maf, and killer, it's optimal to jail if given the chance. If you jail and kill one of the scums, and the other betrays, then you win. Instead of no-jailing, which would depend on both scums betraying, jailing and killing would only rely on one scum (the one you leave alive) to betray.
You'd have to wifom no-jailing in order to pull it off, but it's in no way gamethrowing since you still have a chance to win.
Please read the first few pages of this thread where I have clearly mentioned and requested multiple times that other players and mods should point out the flaws in the points I mentioned and discuss it with me in order to fix it. Because it is impossible that only one person can be right about every aspect and scenario of such a complicated setup. However, I think I have edited it after discussing with many players, so it is probably all correct. If there are any errors that you can find, then please let us know so we can fix it.
You are allowed to sacrifice the mafia anytime you want. Does not have to be a 100% loss scenario. Because you can say later that you are town and got your fos killed and then you can win solo. It is not gt to try and win solo. Mafia is not sided with killer. Outing them is never gt. If you guys have any question related to this setup. Just ask me. In case I am not reachable on epicmafia, you can contact me on whatsapp +91 8447350654. Dedicated helpline number for people with low IQ.
