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Graveyard and Afterlife

Golbolco
almost 8 years

Lucid says that he'll add this if we get to 100 sigs ON MAINS ONLY. Let's see if we can't make it happen, people!

EDIT: We did it!

Introduction

One of the Mafia game's largest untapped areas for potential expansion is arguably interaction with the graveyard. This is largely because as it stands, the graveyard can see the entire unadulterated world, and so resurrecting players or communicating with the living is grossly overpowered as it stands. However, if the graveyard were changed to be obscured, it eliminates a big part of it being an educational tool for new players.

To open up this untapped potential while still retaining the use of the graveyard, I feel that creating a game option that opens up a new, interactive meeting place for the dead while also keeping the old dead meeting area under a new name is the best solution.

I repeat: THIS IS TURNED ON BY A GAME OPTION! It would be incredibly broken to just force this new, game-changing feature into every setup, so setups that want to play with it have to do so by turning on a game option (Just called Afterlife, using this icon..)

The Afterlife

The Afterlife is where people go when they're killed or lynched (if you couldn't figure that out on your own.) The Afterlife is a list on the sidebar that goes above the Graveyard (marked with a icon.) People in the Afterlife speak in blue text and can only see day speaking and the lynch vote unobscured. They cannot see any day actions, whispers will appear completely obscured "Someone whispers to someone." with none of the content. Night actions will not be viewable, and night meetings will be anonymous.

If you're in the graveyard, you do not count towards your team's total count and cannot vote for the lynch, do any kinds of actions (unless you're some kind of new role that operates from the Afterlife) or anything else of the sort.

While there are no roles that can currently interact with this form of the graveyard (except perhaps the Disguiser), here are a few example roles I compiled just to demonstrate the interactions I imagine could happen:

Disclaimer: Quality of these roles is up to the viewer, selected for demonstration purposes only, Golbolco is a bad user.

Having the Afterlife in a game wouldn't change the functionality of roles that simply analyze dead players (e.g. Mortician, Janitor, Pathologist) and it wouldn't change the win condition of roles that require someone to be killed (e.g. Fool, Lyncher, Creepy Girl). Also, trying to add any roles directly associated with the new game option into a setup without the game option enabled is basically pointless as they'd have nothing to interact with, like a mortician without a janitor or a no-reveal game option. So just don't do it.

Hitting the Leave button on a game with the Afterlife enabled while you're in the graveyard won't kick you out of the game immediately, but rather take you to the Graveyard.

The Graveyard

The Graveyard is just the current Graveyard in every game, you go there when you "put your soul to rest." Being in the Graveyard, one can see the entire world without obstruction and types in red text. When you enter the Graveyard, your name is moved to a lower "Graveyard" section in the sidebar like we have now and you will not be able to interact with any new roles that speak to, revive, or in any other way modify dead players. You cannot go back to the Afterlife after entering the Graveyard. This is the view that spectators have in games, as per usual.

Hitting the Leave button in the Graveyard will just take you out of the game. Hitting it while you're alive will still take you out as normal.

Benefits and Drawbacks

Obviously, the biggest benefit is that it allows dead players to still help out their term in whatever little form they can. In Main lobby, the meta part of the game could be heavily utilized (people knowing certain things but dying before they could say.) In Sandbox, more or less any roles associated with the Afterlife could be attached to the setup with no problem. It also retains the biggest use the graveyard currently has: being an educational tool.

Another benefit for this is that most people in Sandbox don't stay in games when dead, but they would be more inclined to stay in the Afterlife at least if there's potential to be revived or be of some kind of use to their teammates.

One of the drawbacks that I can think of is that in a closed role setup, a player in the graveyard will know all of the roles (though not players) with night actions. To be fair, it's not the most prominent drawback, but it is something to keep in mind if you want to make setups with reviving roles in a closed roles game.

Please tell me what you think of the suggestion overall and give any feedback you might have on how to improve it. You can also post any role ideas that you might have/have found that would be compatible with this idea.

Would you want to see this game option added?
93
Yes, in whole
12
No
3
Yes, with modifications (please comment)
2
Other (please comment)
1
Yes, in part (please comment)
Shwartz99
about 6 years
rip past 2 comments are from ded people
deletedalmost 8 years
is this still being added?
deletedalmost 8 years

InnocentOldMan says

What about a guiser like role that switches with a living player?


What about a third party guiser? When he dies, possesses a player and becomes them, wins if he doesn't get lynched.. he could even attend night meetings
Golbolco
almost 8 years

Coconutnut says

Also i wonder how a ghost comes into existance in a game. Is this exclusive to dead mafia? Do all dead players turn into ghosts? Does the ghost send messages only during the day or night? If the messages from ghost are anonymous during the day, and as mention before; dead can see people speak, then ghost is basically crier.


The way Ohdear explained it to me is that the ghost is just a mafia role called a ghost. They can send messages only during the day, I think. Maybe that name is too generalized.
spnead
almost 8 years
So the afterlife text would only be visible to those who are in the afterlife or graveyard, or if it they're a role that has the ability to interact with the afterlife? I think that this could be a good idea, in time.
deletedalmost 8 years
What about a guiser like role that switches with a living player?
deletedalmost 8 years

Golbolco says


Coconutnut says

Not sure if this has been thought of before, in gy, people can give info after they die. i.e. Guy dies, not knowing a thing. Watches the game one day and gets info from other people who died... says in gy: "OMG this guy was mafia and town doesn't even notice!" *gets resurrected* "Guys i know who the mafia is!" METAGAMING!!

if theres a way to avoid this then np


I'm not sure that I'd consider that metagaming, but then again I'm not a mod so I'm not sure how I'd define that.

Also remember that in an AL game (especially one with no reveal on) you're still playing for your team in the AL, and so spreading misinformation to confuse everyone might be a winning strategy in the case that they're not on your team and get resurrected. So I wouldn't really call it metagaming if someone thinks they've figured it out (or really has and succeeds if resurrected.)


I understand, yes this could be fun. I only said metagaming because i had concerns that, dead people getting info from eachother, was unintended. But if there's the rule that you are still alligned with the town/mafia AFTER death and you work with their win condition, then this could work. I've also read the roles and as long as dead mafia don't turn into town then there's no problem. It would be pretty lame if a mafia somehow gets resurrected as town (not saying any roles listed above does this).

Also i wonder how a ghost comes into existance in a game. Is this exclusive to dead mafia? Do all dead players turn into ghosts? Does the ghost send messages only during the day or night? If the messages from ghost are anonymous during the day, and as mention before; dead can see people speak, then ghost is basically crier.

keep up the good work
Golbolco
almost 8 years

Coconutnut says

Not sure if this has been thought of before, in gy, people can give info after they die. i.e. Guy dies, not knowing a thing. Watches the game one day and gets info from other people who died... says in gy: "OMG this guy was mafia and town doesn't even notice!" *gets resurrected* "Guys i know who the mafia is!" METAGAMING!!

if theres a way to avoid this then np


I'm not sure that I'd consider that metagaming, but then again I'm not a mod so I'm not sure how I'd define that.

Also remember that in an AL game (especially one with no reveal on) you're still playing for your team in the AL, and so spreading misinformation to confuse everyone might be a winning strategy in the case that they're not on your team and get resurrected. So I wouldn't really call it metagaming if someone thinks they've figured it out (or really has and succeeds if resurrected.)
Rin
almost 8 years
this is amazing! i know it's not intended for this use, but i can see the afterlife coming in handy in long-winded vivor/bb/dinner related games too. super useful. signed ♥ ♥
FireDragonPrince
almost 8 years
signed, would love to see how this works out
Thewatchman
almost 8 years
signed yes, i think this would be great.
deletedalmost 8 years
Not sure if this has been thought of before, in gy, people can give info after they die. i.e. Guy dies, not knowing a thing. Watches the game one day and gets info from other people who died... says in gy: "OMG this guy was mafia and town doesn't even notice!" *gets resurrected* "Guys i know who the mafia is!" METAGAMING!!

if theres a way to avoid this then np
Gerry
almost 8 years
signed
Golbolco
almost 8 years
Here's an idea: if possible, what if people in the Afterlife see night meetings anonymously but if revived the logs are erased? So unless they're paying attention they can't use the mafia night meetings (or mason/Templar meetings if it's a revived mafia) against them, and other revived people can contradict them (both purposefully and by accident.)
Golbolco
almost 8 years
Cubot's got the right idea for the most part, especially for afterlife + no reveal.

The thing about anonymous night meetings is that if you're a dead mafia and there's a resurrecting role in the game that could bring you back from the dead, you're not going to out your partners to everybody else in the Afterlife. The real concern is that a dead person brought back might know how the mafia coordinated on previous nights, and so you could basically figure out all the false claims during the day that way. Being unable to see night actions already negates a big part of that, though. It's a tough call to make, so I'll think about it and come back to it later.
deletedalmost 8 years
• All future 'resurrection' related roles can only interact with the afterlife, not the graveyard in any way.

• Not sure if anyone thought of this, but afterlife mode + no reveal on death would be an amazing combination, and make no reveal used more often as its not used that much now. In the afterlife, you would be able to discuss what roles players were, and when revived you would be able to tell the town about what roles died.

A few things I'm not sure of:

• If you should see anonymous night chat while in the afterlife. If the afterlife is going to be used in setups, adding 'afterlife' mode will instantly mean mafia has to always act like an invisible man is watching them. Some people before suggested not to see anonymous chat as well.

I wrote one up to summarise the roles as well but i'll post it later
deletedalmost 8 years
Hey Lucid, I wrote up a summary for the afterlife mode just to make it clearer. The things with question marks are parts i'm unsure about and need other people to decide if they should be included or not:

**Graveyard changes**

• 'Afterlife' is a box you can tick while making a setup, which will enable the afterlife in game

• If the afterlife mode box is ticked, once you die, you go into the afterlife instead of the graveyard. To players still alive, it will appear that you have died normally (they can't tell the difference between the graveyard and afterlife)

• Only roles with an afterlife related function can see who is in the afterlife and who has left the afterlife for the graveyard

• People in the afterlife can speak to eachother, with dark blue text. The town can not see what is being said, however the graveyard can

Think of it as this:

Graveyard > Afterlife > Town

Where the arrow represents what speech they can see.. Graveyard can see absolutely everything (both blue text and normal text, whispers, items, night actions etc)

• In the afterlife, you can not see whispers, items, night actions or day actions or night chat (even parties, because you're dead.)

• If you have an item and are killed without using that item, you still have that item in afterlife mode (unusable), and when someone revives you.

• When in afterlife, press 'leave game' to exit the afterlife and enter the graveyard. The game will tell you that you are now in the graveyard.
Golbolco
almost 8 years
Plus the various roles scattered throughout the thread that I didn't link in the OP.
deletedalmost 8 years

admin says

Ok I'll build it


Also make sure to check out the afterlife-related roles listed above!

(Not just a self promotion, I think that all those roles would be interesting, given the usage of the afterlife.)
admin
almost 8 years
Ok I'll build it
ObitoSigma
almost 8 years

Xspead says

wow cat wtf.....you will go back in time and kill them the night they are born?!


That would imply that we were born with social roles like Sheriff or Fool or Maid. I decide my own future.
Xspead
almost 8 years

Ohdearmycatisgone says


Golbolco says

Friendly reminder that if you hyperinflate this petition with your alt you make Golbolco cry on the internet in real life.


And I will n1 you irl


wow cat wtf.....you will go back in time and kill them the night they are born?!
Golbolco
almost 8 years


What do you say, Phil?
deletedalmost 8 years

Golbolco says

Friendly reminder that if you hyperinflate this petition with your alt you make Golbolco cry on the internet in real life.


And I will n1 you irl
Xspead
almost 8 years
lets do dis