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Graveyard and Afterlife

Golbolco
almost 8 years

Lucid says that he'll add this if we get to 100 sigs ON MAINS ONLY. Let's see if we can't make it happen, people!

EDIT: We did it!

Introduction

One of the Mafia game's largest untapped areas for potential expansion is arguably interaction with the graveyard. This is largely because as it stands, the graveyard can see the entire unadulterated world, and so resurrecting players or communicating with the living is grossly overpowered as it stands. However, if the graveyard were changed to be obscured, it eliminates a big part of it being an educational tool for new players.

To open up this untapped potential while still retaining the use of the graveyard, I feel that creating a game option that opens up a new, interactive meeting place for the dead while also keeping the old dead meeting area under a new name is the best solution.

I repeat: THIS IS TURNED ON BY A GAME OPTION! It would be incredibly broken to just force this new, game-changing feature into every setup, so setups that want to play with it have to do so by turning on a game option (Just called Afterlife, using this icon..)

The Afterlife

The Afterlife is where people go when they're killed or lynched (if you couldn't figure that out on your own.) The Afterlife is a list on the sidebar that goes above the Graveyard (marked with a icon.) People in the Afterlife speak in blue text and can only see day speaking and the lynch vote unobscured. They cannot see any day actions, whispers will appear completely obscured "Someone whispers to someone." with none of the content. Night actions will not be viewable, and night meetings will be anonymous.

If you're in the graveyard, you do not count towards your team's total count and cannot vote for the lynch, do any kinds of actions (unless you're some kind of new role that operates from the Afterlife) or anything else of the sort.

While there are no roles that can currently interact with this form of the graveyard (except perhaps the Disguiser), here are a few example roles I compiled just to demonstrate the interactions I imagine could happen:

Disclaimer: Quality of these roles is up to the viewer, selected for demonstration purposes only, Golbolco is a bad user.

Having the Afterlife in a game wouldn't change the functionality of roles that simply analyze dead players (e.g. Mortician, Janitor, Pathologist) and it wouldn't change the win condition of roles that require someone to be killed (e.g. Fool, Lyncher, Creepy Girl). Also, trying to add any roles directly associated with the new game option into a setup without the game option enabled is basically pointless as they'd have nothing to interact with, like a mortician without a janitor or a no-reveal game option. So just don't do it.

Hitting the Leave button on a game with the Afterlife enabled while you're in the graveyard won't kick you out of the game immediately, but rather take you to the Graveyard.

The Graveyard

The Graveyard is just the current Graveyard in every game, you go there when you "put your soul to rest." Being in the Graveyard, one can see the entire world without obstruction and types in red text. When you enter the Graveyard, your name is moved to a lower "Graveyard" section in the sidebar like we have now and you will not be able to interact with any new roles that speak to, revive, or in any other way modify dead players. You cannot go back to the Afterlife after entering the Graveyard. This is the view that spectators have in games, as per usual.

Hitting the Leave button in the Graveyard will just take you out of the game. Hitting it while you're alive will still take you out as normal.

Benefits and Drawbacks

Obviously, the biggest benefit is that it allows dead players to still help out their term in whatever little form they can. In Main lobby, the meta part of the game could be heavily utilized (people knowing certain things but dying before they could say.) In Sandbox, more or less any roles associated with the Afterlife could be attached to the setup with no problem. It also retains the biggest use the graveyard currently has: being an educational tool.

Another benefit for this is that most people in Sandbox don't stay in games when dead, but they would be more inclined to stay in the Afterlife at least if there's potential to be revived or be of some kind of use to their teammates.

One of the drawbacks that I can think of is that in a closed role setup, a player in the graveyard will know all of the roles (though not players) with night actions. To be fair, it's not the most prominent drawback, but it is something to keep in mind if you want to make setups with reviving roles in a closed roles game.

Please tell me what you think of the suggestion overall and give any feedback you might have on how to improve it. You can also post any role ideas that you might have/have found that would be compatible with this idea.

Would you want to see this game option added?
93
Yes, in whole
12
No
3
Yes, with modifications (please comment)
2
Other (please comment)
1
Yes, in part (please comment)
Xspead
almost 8 years
okay one more
deletedalmost 8 years
Only 2 more, we can do it
Schwarzer
almost 8 years
Since it's an extra option I don't see any reason to be against it.
Golbolco
almost 8 years

cub says

the point of dying is that you ded

if you wanted to live should've made use of vests and doctors


That's not really an argument against resurrecting roles. I liked your old one better. And also, what about roles that interact with the graveyard in other ways?

cub says

stagnates game filling

it's not a bad thing that people leave when they die, it helps start other games


They can still leave, they just might not always. You also can't control where and for how long people stay in games for anyway, we already have a graveyard you can participate and speak in and there's no issue with stagnation because of that.

cub says

also mortician is the absolute only example of a role that depends on another role or game mode

and we already thought of a way to change that


I made it a game option specifically to avoid forcing it into every game and breaking how setups currently work, and also so it was optional so people wouldn't have to play with it. There's no reason not to have roles interact with game options specifically anyway; again, it's optional and there wouldn't be a point in putting the roles suggested in this thread in a setup without the Afterlife. Also, "we" as in you took an idea that I sent in from another player who had already posted and then just attached it to the mortician.
Xspead
almost 8 years
wow....... only about eight hours later and you almost have the petition quota. I was pretty sure this was going to happen but not this fast.
cub
almost 8 years
also mortician is the absolute only example of a role that depends on another role or game mode

and we already thought of a way to change that
cub
almost 8 years

Golbolco says

I just thought of another benefit to this: most people in Sandbox don't stay in games when dead, but they would be more inclined to stay in the Afterlife at least if there's potential to be revived or be of some kind of use to their teammates.


stagnates game filling

it's not a bad thing that people leave when they die, it helps start other games
cub
almost 8 years
the point of dying is that you ded

if you wanted to live should've made use of vests and doctors
Golbolco
almost 8 years
I just thought of another benefit to this: most people in Sandbox don't stay in games when dead, but they would be more inclined to stay in the Afterlife at least if there's potential to be revived or be of some kind of use to their teammates.
deletedalmost 8 years

golbolco says



On an unrelated note, I thought about it for a bit and I think the dead actually should be able to see night actions in some form, otherwise there's not actually that much benefit from a revived player beyond the meta game.


I think there should just be a role which can see anonymous night actions while in the graveyard, otherwise all afterlife roles created in the future would all function as detective esque roles, which limits the variability of setups creatable. I think chat in afterlife + seeing anonymous night chat would be enough to set a base for all graveyard roles.. this is something that should be discussed further though
deletedalmost 8 years

Golbolco says

I think that a lot of these roles count on the idea that the setup will be full of resurrection roles (so as not to arise suspicion), which could either be really fun or really repetitive after a while.


Necromancer relies upon at least the possibility of there being other resurrection roles, but I think Lich could stand on it's own.

Necromancer originally started off as an idea for a role that would gain control of everyone revived by others (making them a vanilla third sided with necromancer), but I think that relies too much on other reviving roles being in the game
Golbolco
almost 8 years

LeftSharky says

I created two 3rd party roles that take advantage of the graveyard change

Lich - https://epicmafia.com/role/15862 can bring themselves back to life as long as the person they chose is alive

Necromancer - https://epicmafia.com/role/15861
can revive and take control of a dead person

thoughts?


Both of these roles have a lot of potential (we're going to get so many suggestions called Necromancer.) I think that a lot of these roles count on the idea that the setup will be full of resurrection roles (so as not to arise suspicion), which could either be really fun or really repetitive after a while.

On an unrelated note, I thought about it for a bit and I think the dead actually should be able to see night actions in some form, otherwise there's not actually that much benefit from a revived player beyond the meta game.
deletedalmost 8 years
signed
deletedalmost 8 years
I created two 3rd party roles that take advantage of the graveyard change

Lich - https://epicmafia.com/role/15862 can bring themselves back to life as long as the person they chose is alive

Necromancer - https://epicmafia.com/role/15861
can revive and take control of a dead person

thoughts?
Golbolco
almost 8 years

Buddy says

So if players can see whether you're in the afterlife/graveyard, are we going to run into watching whether someone quits when it looks like the vote is for a loss on their side?

I'm guessing it has to be unknown which they're in by the players who are alive.


That's a good point, maybe only the people in the GY/AL can see where they're at then, while town just sees everyone dead. It also brings up the interesting point of what constitutes gamethrow or not in an afterlife game.

MidNightAwaken says

would the mafia still be included in the night meetings but not be able to vote?


No.
Mid
almost 8 years
would the mafia still be included in the night meetings but not be able to vote?
UltraAug
almost 8 years
i'd think make it so they can't see what the dead people choose, and only have the reviving people do it

this way we get rid of meta like "if x is town, join the graveyard"
deletedalmost 8 years
So if players can see whether you're in the afterlife/graveyard, are we going to run into watching whether someone quits when it looks like the vote is for a loss on their side?

I'm guessing it has to be unknown which they're in by the players who are alive.
UltraAug
almost 8 years
necromancer

can revive a player from the dead each night

they return as a skeleton

wins if the skeletons equal the town

when the necromancer dies all the skeletons die

cannot revive skeletons
deletedalmost 8 years
Icon for resurrectionist by Ben



Also some people said it needs a name change too so here's a poll to vote: http://www.strawpoll.me/11800713
Jixxa
almost 8 years
PLEASE CAN WE DO THIS THATS SO DOPE



IAmNotABC says

I can make thousands of roles in the blink of an eye tho..

Here is one grave related one for ghost.

If killed, can come back from the graveyard and posses a player, replacing him.

Sided with the town.

Ben
almost 8 years
hey I made a new graveyard role

 Thaumaturge 

•Once a game revives a dead player from the graveyard

• Wins if the resurrected player survives
Golbolco
almost 8 years
Kind of an odd role for a town role, but it has potential as a concept. Call it a Fiend or something, maybe?
IAmNotABC
almost 8 years
I can make thousands of roles in the blink of an eye tho..

Here is one grave related one for ghost.

If killed, can come back from the graveyard and posses a player, replacing him.

Sided with the town.
SirAmelio
almost 8 years
oh right i misssed that part, yeah, its irrelevant