Phoenixi joins a game. He was rolled lawyer. He tries putting some D1 lines and goes to meet his partners after blue misshot. One of them is Mori. He outs pr reads on blues and intends to hammer his cop read. Somebody asks to kill a sheriff but Phoenixi refuses to do so as he considers it suboptimal. He claims he's going to cc cop. He laws the most random hooker over the most likely to be checked nilla. He outs an inno on hooker. He outs 3 fos'es, including his nilla, but not hooker. MisterPresident asks for hammer. Phoenixi starts voting around his made up fos'es. Town is flashing votes and Phoenixi tries voting around the town, including clears, finally hammering a hooker. He laughs due to the hammer and acts confused. He shares his new BS read with Mori and kills the BS. He makes up a report on his made up townread and rolls with his original fos on Mori. After Mori being hammered, he kills a blue who surely wouldn't get a vest. He gets cc lynched and hits a vest. He loses a game.
Everything looks alright, apart from the part where he hammered the hooker. If he was throwing against Mori, he would do one of the following: - agree on killing a sheriff - guilty Mori after lynching a hooker or no law for wifom purposes - hit both the sheriff and MisterPresident to intentionally hit a vest that he knew was somewhere there - claim mafia, lurk on purpose, change the way he talks D2 and later, different than D1 - out a scumread on Mori on D1
How can Phoenixi decide whether to hammer himself, hooker or blue if he was given so little time to hammer before somebody else unvotes. Especially that Phoenixi could've thought that everybody was voted to give a hammer to MisterPresident.
If I was given a hammer as mafia and somebody was flashing a vote, I'd change my vote to another to hammer it. However, MisterPresident has so long name that when he votes, another line pops in and once you intend to vote a towny nickname, you appear to hammer somebody else.
you're actually about 100% wrong in every statement you just made
i've never once said because he was throwing, there was a pause
i said because there was a pause, it was a throw
in fact, even if i strongly believed that this game was throwing, i wouldn't be comfortable with ruling this as gamethrowing unless i knew beyond a reasonable doubt that it was throwing (in this case, that there was a pause before his vote, and his vote was not due to the vote spam)
And the answer to that has already been found, was it? First you mentioned that there was a pause, and that was it. Then Ally quoted you on that to shut down discussion.
Then when pressed on that issue (after all, we all can read what happened, timestamps and all), you admit that it's a point in the air, and that it's open to your interpretation. Your main argument. Up to interpretation.
And your interpretation is that since Phoenixo must be throwing, there must have been a pause.
But then you say your main argument that Phoenixo is throwing is that there was a pause!
That's called circular reasoning, and the root cause for circular reasoning is usually that one party wants to arrive at a conclusion before making their case. In which case that Phoemoji was throwing.
anyways, nothing more to add because im pretty sure you're smart enough to realize that if there was a pause, his reasoning doesnt make sense and you can probably come to the conclusion he was throwing and tried to justify it poorly
have some critical thinking and you can figure out why all your statements are incorrect or are just faulty
yes, he claimed it was an accident. he didn't outright say "yes, i was throwing the game". i understand that. probably the reason why i keep saying i don't believe it was an accident because there was a pause between the unvotes and i don't think the reasoning he gave for the accident (he said it was voting/unvoting) was the cause for him voting hooker.
i think he voted hooker cause he was throwing
theres nothing to indicate that memoji didn't know it was autowin to lynch wrong there. he was just making a blanket statement of "ITS TECHNICALLY NEVER AUTOWIN BECAUSE MAFIA CAN MESS UP". basically hes defending that even if he did hammer hooker on purpose, he can reason that theres never a 100% chance of autowin there because maybe mafia mess up and hook the wrong target through a mistake or something
also, yeah you're right, he doesnt have to follow on mrpresidents failed attempt at a hammer because mrpresident failed to realize phoenixi was messing up the cross by voting his partner mori. he doesnt have to follow on it 3 times, but when phoenixi is given the HAMMER and he can DECIDE if he wants to lynch himself, a blue, or a hooker. he better be lynching that blue for autowin
really baffling how you also sit there and believe his statement that "he didnt know hammering town was autowin" (which doesnt look like thats what he was really saying) but one of your statements is defending him by saying he knew enough about the game to kill the non-clear blue so that it wouldnt be autoloss
i can't personally say how long the pause was because i wasn't in the game, but i can with certainty say there was a pause before the vote. hence the "i misclicked because votes messed it up" excuse doesnt hold up to me
and no, you will not be hearing from me why i can say there was a pause. somebody else can chirp up that information if they feel its necessary
That's just a speculation. You don't know how long the pause was and don't expect that people would think about a correct hammer within a less than a second or even a few.
You still say like hammering the hooker was Phoenixi's decision, which is not the case, as most of his post he claims it was an accident.
He also knew he could win the game after hammering the hooker, after nilla was lynched, he killed a blue who had no way to be vested and he knew, that after he gets his cc lynched, he the tonight's kill might guarantee a win.
That MisterPresident voted town on mylo 3 times, it doesn't mean that Phoenixo would follow, as he believed MisterPresident was given a hammer and he could blitz on random town, although his last votes were flipping between clears. Keep in mind that Memoji claimed he didn't know hammering town was autowin, so he could intend to hammer a clear.
reasons for a violation: he hammered hooker/mafia instead of taking autowin when given the option
he explains that he misclicked because of misterpresidents voting pattern
that isn't true because there was a pause between the voting and the hammer (no, the message thecourier said wasn't the determination that there was a pause)
i said he should probably be more aware/careful of what the cross was because votes were on HIM and his PARTNER. if he counted wrong and hammered wrong because of that, he might not have gotten a vio, this isn't about whether he made a mistake because he wasnt aware of votes. he said he made the mistake because he voted INCORRECTLY because of misterpresidents voting/unvoting
secondly, i mean i hope phoenixi knows he can win the game by hammering the one blue he was allowed to, over his partner or himself
that is the guy he attempted to hammer THREE times, btw. i even made a comment though that he mightve been scared of voting that after the failed hammer, so that gets a little dicey about him voting earlier and leaving his vote parked. but the fact of the matter is it came down to him getting a hammer and then hammering his hooker
i said i'd be more inclined to believe him if it wasnt for the fact he was playing with opposition and his reasoning was sketchy along with the other reasons. doesn't mean you get a vio if i thought he made a mistake. i don't think he made a mistake, as evidenced by the 20 times ive said that
since the rest of your things you found "embarassing" are kinda scatterbrained: just going to say random comments about them
i found his intent to be that he was given the chance to hammer hooker and take it, not that he accidentally hammered hooker. so yes, the results of his hammer are being used as reasoning
people responded to memoji and what other people said
also, someone ELSE mentioned that phoenixi wouldnt have to be aware or concerned of moris position at the time of the game. mori followed this by saying that she believes he was aware, because he mentioned she was a 'beast' or something along the lines because of the games she was winning
why would we need undeniable proof that he was 'concerned about her run'
I haven't any of GrannyPixel's comments once I knew it was for Memoji's defense.
deletedover 6 years
it's still not generally refunded for town pr -- the guidelines for a refund are pretty much that the throw has to put their team in autoloss, i believe the only d1 hipfire we normally refund for in that setup is a hooker shot
Alright, mods claim they didn't bring up anything Mori has said.
Reasons for a violation: - Phoenixi and Mori was in one team. Mori was running, Phoenixi was alting. They were both mafia. - Phoenixi had a different playstyle than he has on his running account. - He hammered the hooker when he had a vote on town member.
Memoji's defense: - Voting list slipped out. - He has mutual wins with in other games. - Mori was in 20th place while Memoji in 6th. - He claims hammering a town wasn't an autowin.
Also, I'm pointing out that Phoenixi had 21 wins and 19 losses last round.
i was talking about the player in question lying and making up that they voted hooker because of votes, and not because of some other mess up they had (maybe it was an actual misclick or they forgot who their hooker was)
also, real awkward that you would come at me saying "if you assume that i would lie, i better have some grounds of suspicion" when your post that I quoted is you sitting there on your high horse thinking that its hillarious and disgusting the way this verdict was handled, when you didn't even bother to research enough to see why mori said phoenixi had 3 different responses to why he voted wrong
tell me where i mistook a name. did you just assume again i mistook a name because you half-assed through the comments again and saw grannypixels comments? she was wrong and was referencing another game, in THAT game he said the name baller, i even copy/pasted the line where he said he meant to vote baller
gamethrowing intention wasn't based on what he meant to say or misspoke or anything
so like, if Pheonixi had killed right, and sheriff was reported for hipfiring, would it have been refunded that way? I'm sure no one reported the sheriff for hipfiring
deletedover 6 years
nothing anyone said was ignored, the issue was first brought up in mod chat over 13 hours prior to me sustaining it and discussed throughout the day, and every mod that weighed in agreed to the verdict, which was about 5 or so of us.
I have read comments of reports mentioned in the OP, mainly those of Memoji, Mori and mods. There are a few things that I find embarrasing:
- denial claimed that Phoenixi was supposed to know how many votes has each living person in a game with 8 people alive.
- denial claimed that Phoenixi was supposed to know he'd win the game just by following MisterPresident fos on TheCourier6, while Phoenixi has already made up 3 fos'es which don't include TheCourier6.
- the fact that you are playing on an alt of a running account can be brought as a reason to wariant a violation for a single screw-up you make in a game with another runner.
- denial and Mori are reasoning results of Phoenixi's deed outright stating that the deed was Phoenixi's decision.
- Memoji's comments of his defense seem to be ignored and never brought up by mods.
- Mori claims Memoji was throwing against her as she was running quickly, showing non-revelant screenshots about how she's concerned, but no proof has been posted that Memoji was concerned about her run.
- Ally claims that the issue has been discussed with the rest of the mod team and that Memoji plays differently on running account (nothing been mentioned about other games on Phoenixi account) and it grounds for a violation.
