almost 7 years

Google defines "hazing" as "the imposition of strenuous, often humiliating, tasks as part of a program of rigorous physical training and initiation."

Hazing IRL has kind of a funny history, especially as of late, but has been a mainstay in special clubs, fraternities/sororities and certain organizations for a very long time.

In Sandbox, however, hazing manifests itself as one of our most self-defeating traditions in the form of Policy. Policy-lynching noavis, who are more often than not new players who wandered into the wrong lobby by accident, is barely a form of hazing at all. Most people who are hazed know that it's coming, but because of the insular nature of this website and how we've developed a sort of dialect, there's no way for a new player to immediately navigate and understand this.

Really it shows a critical lack of awareness when people act as though a new player is going to know all of the EM lingo and how to play, especially Sandbox-specific terms. This website has no tutorial and the game starts speeding by so quick that unless you're just selecting things at random and just trying to run so that you stay in place, you're going to fail.

There's been plenty of threads denouncing the treatment of noavis before, and this isn't really one of those threads. This is more of an address to those in the community that still practice and defending hazing.

A lot of people tell me when I confront them about policy is that noavis ruin games and veg. This just goes back to the fact that this website doesn't have a tutorial. A lot of new players only have experience with something like ToS, which has a very different voting system than EM's. So when they look at their action screen at night and there's no indicator of what to do, how should we expect them to do anything right if their role is more complex than a cop or a doctor?

It's not like there's a way to check what your role does in Sandbox anyway. You have to go to the learn tab, and again: new players probably don't know how to navigate the website. If someone announces that they're new to EM, I'm glad that I see people directing noavis on where to go to get avatars and check out what their role does. But for those of you who are concerned with the game being ruined by noavis, does it really kill you if you help them out before the game starts?

Yeah there's not always going to be time before the game starts to give them a crash course, but if they happen to survive the first night then engage them there. Besides, it's not like you'd be talking about anything worthwhile during the daytime (let's save that for another thread.)

The nihilists in the back of the room will tell me that it doesn't matter if we get new players, that the site is dying or deserves to die. To quote Shounen from my Consensus thread: log out. If you really want EM to die, why are you still here? Looking to prospect in a ghost town? Good luck. And if you really want to terrorize this website, the users, or deprive Lucid of revenue, your efforts are better served in Main Lobby where most new players hang out anyway.

If you're one of the people who lead policy lynchings, I would rather take my gamble with a dozen new players than continue to play with the likes of you. Better the devil you don't know than the devil you do.

almost 7 years
ya but noavis r gay
deletedalmost 7 years
anyway.... the elitist attitude is what makes sandbox an unwelcome place. stop acting like youre better than new players just because youve been sitting here doing nothing for a longer amount of time than they have and dont judge people just because they dont have an avatar
deletedalmost 7 years
????
almost 7 years

shounen says

sandbox is definitely a place for new players


ur not even sandbox player
deletedalmost 7 years
hurr durr normies not allowed make sure youre known in sandbox before talking go to main for three months before you can enjoy simplistic casual play hurr durr im an elitist about a f*cking lobby full of gay preteens
deletedalmost 7 years
sandbox is definitely a place for new players
almost 7 years
Sandbox is not a place for new players.

New players must come to main lobby first and play (and win) at least 5 different kinds of setup. This time they have already known ~20 roles and know how to play as town/maf/3rd

It takes around 3 months for a new player to play sandbox games just fine, so we cant just wait for them doing the beginning steps. Main lobby is for that

Noavi can be alt, but Alt should be lynched unless they tell us who they are.

All of this happen mainly because they merged training and competitive lobby into main, making people think sandbox is more welcome lobby
almost 7 years
i've hazed freshmen lol
almost 7 years

pip says

but what about the ones that dont actually talk and just afk until they veg, those are the ones that ruin it for the rest of them


If you try talking to them and they still don’t reply, they’re a lost cause; but how do you know that they’ll be that way before the game starts?
almost 7 years
but what about the ones that dont actually talk and just afk until they veg, those are the ones that ruin it for the rest of them
almost 7 years
Sign This Petition To End Noavi Hate
almost 7 years
funny because it's usually not noobs that are the ones who ruin games
almost 7 years

Xethora says

that's an unnecessary solution to a problem that's already been solved. plus account age doesn't mean everything.


And neither does having an avi. There's noavi's who've been around forever and avi's who haven't.

There's always gonna be noobs that ruin games ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
almost 7 years
Cool Post Golbolco, You Should Bring It To The White House.
almost 7 years

arials92 says

You can do that by refreshing the page. The players are ordered from oldest to newest.


that's an unnecessary solution to a problem that's already been solved. plus account age doesn't mean everything.
almost 7 years
we should make anyone that wants to join sandbox record themself drinking a gallon of milk and rubbing peanut butter on their nipples
deletedalmost 7 years
i’ve always found noavi policy to be really silly. im sure the majority of users were noavis once. even if you did get an avi right off the bat upon sign up you were definitely a noob player at some point. its just like a freshman senior dynamic. you memorise the role page and then act like anyone who doesnt know what complicated roles do are absolute idiots. if this site is to continue growing and functioning new players shouldnt be discouraged to continue. welcome noavis with open arms
almost 7 years
I recall ruining a couple of games in Main lobby as a noavi/noob because I would either ask what my role does (hooker etc.) in the town meeting or would veg because I didn't think ending meetings was necessary. A tutorial would definitely be helpful!

Also I've noticed that especially in small or relaxed games (meaning no one is spamming the wall), I've noticed it suffices to tell the noavi "please get an avatar so you avoid unnecessary hate" once and they get it. If this is followed by a lynch, that only reinforces the idea and they usually get avatars by the next game.

Finally, sorry but I think that having an avatar can actually increase a person's likelihood of staying in EM. Why? Because by adding an avatar (hopefully not some 3d yellow smiley face or uncropped avi they hastily uploaded) you are personalizing your account and also investing time into creating the persona. The more time I spend in a game customizing my character the more I am likely to pick it up later (but maybe that's just me). It doesn't work 100% the same in EM (it does in my case since I happen to have created The Matron) but there has to be some correlation right?
almost 7 years
The Holy Church of Jamal is a sanctuary for all and a community for all.
almost 7 years
You can do that by refreshing the page. The players are ordered from oldest to newest.
almost 7 years

arials92 says

Secondly, there should be an option to add an avi as soon as you sign up, but that's just my personal opinion. I don't mind noavi's, but after a while they're quite bothersome.


i disagree. personally i like the fact that there's a way to tell new players from ones with at least a bit of experience.
deletedalmost 7 years
free golbloco
almost 7 years
Welp golb I suppose this is the end of our friendship.

On the real though, I do attempt to help noavi's. Hell, I still have to go to the Learn tab for most of the roles. But 70% of the time as of late, the noavi's veg or are completely oblivious. This is why training/comp lobby was a nice mix because when you see "training" obviously that's where you're going to go.

Secondly, there should be an option to add an avi as soon as you sign up, but that's just my personal opinion. I don't mind noavi's, but after a while they're quite bothersome.
deletedalmost 7 years
nice post golb i agree, but you forgot that noavi's don't have a soul.