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Sexism and Racism.

Shamu
almost 8 years

Sexism and racism is inherently linked to power, in such a way that women can't (really) be sexist towards men, and black people can't (really) be racist towards white people.

Yes there are exceptions, I don't want someone to bring up some 3,000 year old civilization that was dominated by black people where they had more privilege.

Racism and sexism are inherently a privilege issue, you can bring up all the cases you want of hate crimes against men from extremists or hate crimes against white people from black people - but it's not racism.

It's discrimination.

If you want to make a case against this then you can prove that women have more privilege than men, or that black people have more privilege than white people.

Maybe it's sad to say that this is primarily the american scope that I'm speaking of, I'm an american so I'm more in tune with american politics and the racial scope in this area.

Discuss.

Orly
almost 8 years
desuo
almost 8 years

Sims says

i like what you're saying, i would have given your paper an A


I got A- due to grammatical errors and poor formatting.
Sims
almost 8 years
i like what you're saying, i would have given your paper an A
thecolonel
almost 8 years

projectmatt says


thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says

if people don't notice them doesn't that mean they aren't important


no, part of the idea is that a lot of people unknowingly take place/participate in a system where they have a lot of power/ability to oppress people, but they dont realize it is happening


how do normal people oppress other normal people because of their race


people partake in a system that regularly oppresses people who are minorities/not in the upper class, but they are often ignorant of it. if you are sincerely curious, i could type up stuff for you but i have a feeling a debate about this would go badly.


you're telling me i probably oppress people and i don't think i oppress people so i would probably not agree with you but i also want to know why you think i oppress people
desuo
almost 8 years
obs are lower paid and most statistics compare part and full time vs part and full time - skewing the results. Also in my country women in part time work are paid significantly more than men in part time work (a larger differential than there is between full time women and men in favour of men) but because full time workers earn for and part time earn less overall the pay gap favours men by 12% here
desuo
almost 8 years

projectmatt says


desuo says


projectmatt says


MeetTerry says

I'm starting to get really tired of this "you need power in order to be racist/sexist/etc"

we have african "scholars" who endlessly talk about how being white is genetically inferior because of the lack of melanin.

women nor black people are oppressed in society.

Women go to college at a rate that far exceeds that of men. They continue to get higher GPAs. They have a 2-to-1 advantage in STEM fields. And no, they aren't paid 70% of what men are paid. They actually found they get paid more than men in many job fields.


i know i shouldn't take the bait, but since the wage gap is a really commonly misunderstood thing, it's important to understand that the issue of the wage gap is really, really complex and that one huge conensus doesn't really exist. it isn't transparently "women are always underpaid", but it is true that women are less likely to be in STEM fields/jobs that are higher paying, which is a symptom of gender roles that tend to force women into specific roles


I've written an entire paper on the gender wage gap and trust me if that's your attitude and you havent even mentioned the idea of intrinsic motivation you dont understand the issue.


i understand where intrinsic motivation potentially factors into it, but my point was that the issue is far more complex than just "do women make less than men, or do they not?"


certainly true. America for sure is a sexist country so the pay gap there is different, but where i live a pay gap exists but there is 0 evidence of sexism coming into the equation at a statistically relevant level. That means that at least a percentage of the american ay gap can be explained by reason other than systemic or structural based sexism. Also women are more likely to work part time - part time j
Orly
almost 8 years
Sims
almost 8 years

projectmatt says


thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says

if people don't notice them doesn't that mean they aren't important


no, part of the idea is that a lot of people unknowingly take place/participate in a system where they have a lot of power/ability to oppress people, but they dont realize it is happening


how do normal people oppress other normal people because of their race


people partake in a system that regularly oppresses people who are minorities/not in the upper class, but they are often ignorant of it. if you are sincerely curious, i could type up stuff for you but i have a feeling a debate about this would go badly.


does not being ignorant about it suddenly make the oppression stop?
peach
almost 8 years
i hope the internet police shut this site down very soon
Orly
almost 8 years
projectmatt
almost 8 years

thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says

if people don't notice them doesn't that mean they aren't important


no, part of the idea is that a lot of people unknowingly take place/participate in a system where they have a lot of power/ability to oppress people, but they dont realize it is happening


how do normal people oppress other normal people because of their race


people partake in a system that regularly oppresses people who are minorities/not in the upper class, but they are often ignorant of it. if you are sincerely curious, i could type up stuff for you but i have a feeling a debate about this would go badly.
Sims
almost 8 years

desuo says


projectmatt says


MeetTerry says

I'm starting to get really tired of this "you need power in order to be racist/sexist/etc"

we have african "scholars" who endlessly talk about how being white is genetically inferior because of the lack of melanin.

women nor black people are oppressed in society.

Women go to college at a rate that far exceeds that of men. They continue to get higher GPAs. They have a 2-to-1 advantage in STEM fields. And no, they aren't paid 70% of what men are paid. They actually found they get paid more than men in many job fields.


i know i shouldn't take the bait, but since the wage gap is a really commonly misunderstood thing, it's important to understand that the issue of the wage gap is really, really complex and that one huge conensus doesn't really exist. it isn't transparently "women are always underpaid", but it is true that women are less likely to be in STEM fields/jobs that are higher paying, which is a symptom of gender roles that tend to force women into specific roles


I've written an entire paper on the gender wage gap and trust me if that's your attitude and you havent even mentioned the idea of intrinsic motivation you dont understand the issue.


wow, you writing a paper on this issue makes you an authority on it and i want you to tell me more
desuo
almost 8 years

thecolonel says


desuo says


projectmatt says


MeetTerry says

I'm starting to get really tired of this "you need power in order to be racist/sexist/etc"

we have african "scholars" who endlessly talk about how being white is genetically inferior because of the lack of melanin.

women nor black people are oppressed in society.

Women go to college at a rate that far exceeds that of men. They continue to get higher GPAs. They have a 2-to-1 advantage in STEM fields. And no, they aren't paid 70% of what men are paid. They actually found they get paid more than men in many job fields.


i know i shouldn't take the bait, but since the wage gap is a really commonly misunderstood thing, it's important to understand that the issue of the wage gap is really, really complex and that one huge conensus doesn't really exist. it isn't transparently "women are always underpaid", but it is true that women are less likely to be in STEM fields/jobs that are higher paying, which is a symptom of gender roles that tend to force women into specific roles


I've written an entire paper on the gender wage gap and trust me if that's your attitude and you havent even mentioned the idea of intrinsic motivation you dont understand the issue.


why would you decide to do that


I'm an economics major and I'm going into politics.
thecolonel
almost 8 years

desuo says


projectmatt says


MeetTerry says

I'm starting to get really tired of this "you need power in order to be racist/sexist/etc"

we have african "scholars" who endlessly talk about how being white is genetically inferior because of the lack of melanin.

women nor black people are oppressed in society.

Women go to college at a rate that far exceeds that of men. They continue to get higher GPAs. They have a 2-to-1 advantage in STEM fields. And no, they aren't paid 70% of what men are paid. They actually found they get paid more than men in many job fields.


i know i shouldn't take the bait, but since the wage gap is a really commonly misunderstood thing, it's important to understand that the issue of the wage gap is really, really complex and that one huge conensus doesn't really exist. it isn't transparently "women are always underpaid", but it is true that women are less likely to be in STEM fields/jobs that are higher paying, which is a symptom of gender roles that tend to force women into specific roles


I've written an entire paper on the gender wage gap and trust me if that's your attitude and you havent even mentioned the idea of intrinsic motivation you dont understand the issue.


why would you decide to do that
projectmatt
almost 8 years

desuo says


projectmatt says


MeetTerry says

I'm starting to get really tired of this "you need power in order to be racist/sexist/etc"

we have african "scholars" who endlessly talk about how being white is genetically inferior because of the lack of melanin.

women nor black people are oppressed in society.

Women go to college at a rate that far exceeds that of men. They continue to get higher GPAs. They have a 2-to-1 advantage in STEM fields. And no, they aren't paid 70% of what men are paid. They actually found they get paid more than men in many job fields.


i know i shouldn't take the bait, but since the wage gap is a really commonly misunderstood thing, it's important to understand that the issue of the wage gap is really, really complex and that one huge conensus doesn't really exist. it isn't transparently "women are always underpaid", but it is true that women are less likely to be in STEM fields/jobs that are higher paying, which is a symptom of gender roles that tend to force women into specific roles


I've written an entire paper on the gender wage gap and trust me if that's your attitude and you havent even mentioned the idea of intrinsic motivation you dont understand the issue.


i understand where intrinsic motivation potentially factors into it, but my point was that the issue is far more complex than just "do women make less than men, or do they not?"
Sims
almost 8 years
all sex is r@pe, even when it isn't
Orly
almost 8 years
thecolonel
almost 8 years

projectmatt says


thecolonel says

if people don't notice them doesn't that mean they aren't important


no, part of the idea is that a lot of people unknowingly take place/participate in a system where they have a lot of power/ability to oppress people, but they dont realize it is happening


how do normal people oppress other normal people because of their race
desuo
almost 8 years

projectmatt says


MeetTerry says

I'm starting to get really tired of this "you need power in order to be racist/sexist/etc"

we have african "scholars" who endlessly talk about how being white is genetically inferior because of the lack of melanin.

women nor black people are oppressed in society.

Women go to college at a rate that far exceeds that of men. They continue to get higher GPAs. They have a 2-to-1 advantage in STEM fields. And no, they aren't paid 70% of what men are paid. They actually found they get paid more than men in many job fields.


i know i shouldn't take the bait, but since the wage gap is a really commonly misunderstood thing, it's important to understand that the issue of the wage gap is really, really complex and that one huge conensus doesn't really exist. it isn't transparently "women are always underpaid", but it is true that women are less likely to be in STEM fields/jobs that are higher paying, which is a symptom of gender roles that tend to force women into specific roles


I've written an entire paper on the gender wage gap and trust me if that's your attitude and you havent even mentioned the idea of intrinsic motivation you dont understand the issue.
projectmatt
almost 8 years

thecolonel says

if people don't notice them doesn't that mean they aren't important


no, part of the idea is that a lot of people unknowingly take place/participate in a system where they have a lot of power/ability to oppress people, but they dont realize it is happening
peach
almost 8 years
sexism and racism? sounds fake..
thecolonel
almost 8 years
if people don't notice them doesn't that mean they aren't important
projectmatt
almost 8 years

thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says


projectmatt says

This thread will go badly, but before it does, I'll say what I just spent 20 minutes in a game debating about, and that Shamu summed up well:

The power dynamic is extremely important to consider when we talk about racism/sexism in our society. If we study the society around us, it's really easy to see and understand that certain groups hold far more privilege/more power than others.

If we can literally just agree that certain groups hold more power, it's a lot easier to go from there to discuss why feminism/black lives matter/all that stuff is important and needed, but a lot of people get stuck on accepting that certain people hold more power.


i don't think anyone's saying whitey's better off on average but why does it do any good to look at people as a group like that instead of looking at them individually


i'm not sure i get the question - it is important to look at things individually as well as in a group


there's no question. it seemed like you were wondering why people are reluctant to see things as racial power dichotomies and i think it's because doing that creates racial tension for no good reason


well, it's a tricky topic. it's important to recognize that there is a power dynamic in play in our society, and to understand how it impacts our daily lives. it's also important to understand that individual people don't usually realize that these dynamics are at play - or that they might be participating in them unknowingly.
thecolonel
almost 8 years

projectmatt says


thecolonel says


projectmatt says

This thread will go badly, but before it does, I'll say what I just spent 20 minutes in a game debating about, and that Shamu summed up well:

The power dynamic is extremely important to consider when we talk about racism/sexism in our society. If we study the society around us, it's really easy to see and understand that certain groups hold far more privilege/more power than others.

If we can literally just agree that certain groups hold more power, it's a lot easier to go from there to discuss why feminism/black lives matter/all that stuff is important and needed, but a lot of people get stuck on accepting that certain people hold more power.


i don't think anyone's saying whitey's better off on average but why does it do any good to look at people as a group like that instead of looking at them individually


i'm not sure i get the question - it is important to look at things individually as well as in a group


there's no question. it seemed like you were wondering why people are reluctant to see things as racial power dichotomies and i think it's because doing that creates racial tension for no good reason
Shamu
almost 8 years
And sure women can go have a 2-1 advantage in STEM fields, and can have higher GPA, or can go to college at a rate that exceeds men. But if you can tell me that a college would accept a woman over a man with the same grades that's bull.

If you can tell me that mens grades are being lowered because the teachers are undergrading them that's also bull.

If you're going to degrade someones effort in !ng school as a type of privilege then whatever dude.

I'm not going to deny that there aren't gender stereotypes, but that's not what I'm talking about.

If you want an example of privilege then you can look at most school dress codes for that manner.

Or culture, or catcalling. Privilege is something that you inherently have because of your race/gender/whatever, it's applied to a group of people as a whole. And racism/sexism is derived from that.