rates of depression after transition can't be analyzed well if rates of depression before transition aren't consistent. i don't know what methodology that paper you linked used but my point is that there's nowhere near enough consistency for any consensus
what are the larger societal issues that you're speaking about?
i think it's a really simple and easy solution to let people express themselves however they want, and in the case of transgender people, it's literally just not forcing them to be who they aren't.
this isn't something i can debate you about unless you can specifically cite every report of harassment, which is obviously impossible.
that said though, 90% of transgender people reported being harassed in their workplace. if even 40% of those people were lying, wouldn't you still agree that the figure is way, way too high?
also with regards to the baseline thing, it's well-known that transgender people are far more depressed than the rest of the population, but the point i was referring to was about the rates of depression after transition. i think i'm misunderstanding you?
there are larger societal issues behind who they are and looking at those to lower levels of gender dysphoria is gonna end up in a lot less depression than trying to make everyone accept any way someone chooses to express themselves
ah okay, then i am sincerely very surprised that you haven't seen/witnessed the general attitude of the populace toward transgender people. i live in the middle of nowhere PA, and it is absurdly prominent here.
with regards to the "choice" thing, it is a "choice" in the same way that gay people can -choose- to hide their sexuality from other people. in both cases, it's still unhealthy to be forced to deny a huge part of who you are, and understandably would lead to depression.
the majority of trans people reporting harassment is a mix of actual harassment (not enough to make 50% of transgender people depressed) and acceptance culture overreactions
would you please point me the figure in the article you're talking about? it reports a high rate of depression among transgender people (which is true), but i don't see anything about before and after transition.
you almost certainly didn't hear about african american depression and suicide during the civil rights movement because:
1. depression was not a thing that was generally seen as a disorder 2. they were slaves, so generally deaths/suicides would, i imagine, go unreported/undocumented often.
that's a moot point though - you said that transgender people are "choosing to be a certain way", and i hope you understand that being transgender is not a choice in any sense of the word.
judging by what you're saying, i'm assuming you come from a rather progressive area? if you do, that's great, but in a very major amount of places in our country, people -are- openly hostile/judgmental/unwilling to listen to those who are transgender. it's not a matter of just talking it out with most people.
the vast majority of transgender people have reported being harassed/discriminated against, so you don't even have to take my word for it.
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ccp/81/3/545/ this is the first thing i found with depression stats and they're way off from the numbers you were talking about. my point was that these studies are variable. there isn't a good understanding of it which means i can have fun making people mad by stating the obvious
it's definitely a factor but there's something bigger underlying it in the people themselves. you don't hear about african american depression and suicide before the civil rights movement. i don't know how much of an issue it was and i'm sure it existed but i doubt it was at the same level you see in transgender people when they're choosing to be a certain way
obviously hate crime rates are going to be higher against transgender people than the population. hateful people exist. from what i've seen it's uncommon relative to the fear they express. if they're worried about people accepting their condition as legitimate they should be able to have open conversations with those people without committing suicide if that's all it is
the problem with that study is that it compares transgender people with the rest of the population of sweden - as opposed to transgender people who have transitioned versus transgender people who have not - which kind of invalidates the point the study is trying to make.
the specific thing im pointing to in the article is this section:
"At entry into the study (baseline), the most common comorbidity in both groups was depression, with a 24.9% incidence in MTF subjects and 13.6% in FTM, according to Dr. Asscheman. He noted, however, that the frequency of depression varied greatly among the study centers.
Even after treatment, 26 (2.4%) of the MTF subjects and 7 (1.4%) of the FTM subjects still reported depression, leading Dr. Asscheman to tell the large audience, "Sex-reassignment treatment does not cure depression.""
Also, what you're saying is honestly just not reflective of the vast majority of transgender people that I've met/been friends with. A lot of the time, it's very hard to find people who will accept you in spite of your gender identity. A lot of people need to hide it constantly, and the risk for violence/hate crimes is CONSIDERABLY higher for transgender people than it is for those who aren't.
And even if trans people find people who accept them, a very large amount of our society is still quite hostile to them, and even denies the fact that they exist, like as we've seen happen in this very thread.
I think the societal attitude toward those who are transgender is a huge factor in why depression/suicide rates are higher, and I'm surprised you don't agree.
i can't get past the pay wall but i can get someone to download it for me tomorrow. i googled it and didn't see anything in the medscape article about a 90% decrease in depression. also i don't know what 90% decrease in depression means. other studies showed the opposite trend. the more interesting thing is why you think they're still depressed. a lot of them spend time in social circles of people who accept them. open real-life hostility towards transgender people just for being transgender is probably rare if you don't live in the south. i think it's a way simpler answer that transgender tendencies are associated with depressive tendencies because of a common theme
