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PETRI BACK TO HER OLD WAYS

over 7 years

https://epicmafia.com/report/204546

THIS IS GREAT I'M LAUGHING

SO MUCH FOR BEING REFORMED

http://pastebin.com/FDTZRwib

over 7 years
remember, the -thesis- of the article is: "Gender-dependent differentiation of the brain has been detected at every level of organization -- morphological, neurochemical, and functional -- and has been shown to be primarily controlled by sex differences in gonadal steroid hormone levels during perinatal development."

basically meaning that our perception of our gender/what gender we are is largely based on the makeup of our brain and biological things that happen to us

so in other words, our perceptions of our gender is often based because of the makeup of our brains, which is giving legitimacy to the idea that people who are transgender may experience dissonance because of a biological part of their brain that doesn't match the sex they were born with
over 7 years
disaster
over 7 years
males and females have a different nervous makeup, so are you saying transgender people have growth hormone imbalances which gave them the wrong brain? what would support that?
over 7 years
none of that has anything to do with gender identity besides how you say growth hormones have a big impact on gender which still doesn't mean anything
over 7 years

thecolonel says

do you expect me to read past abstracts at 3am? if there were consensus findings that gender identity and sexual orientation were hard-determined at early development then these things would be common knowledge. that's why those people put that soundbite in their abstract. they want to be famous. how about you tell me how that claim's supported


i mean if you're debating something like being transgender at 3:am, it's not very far fetched.

it would be literally not possible for me to give you a good summary of a full scientific article in just a paragraph, but the basis of the article of this:

basically, gonadal steroid hormones that are developed during during perinatal development have a big impact on gender, and that your perception of gender is based on the makeup of your brain, which can lead to dissonance if you are born a different biological sex. to quote another part from the article:

"For example, the thoracolumbar intermediolateral nucleus of the spinal cord in male cats was shown to contain more sympathetic motoneurons than in the female cat [32]. In the same year, Raisman and Field (1971) reported that the preoptic area in rats contained more synapses from non-amygdaloid origin in females than in males in adulthood [136]."

Of course, it goes on further to compare the differences in humans with male and female but I'm lazy and don't feel like finding the quotes, but if you are sincerely interested, I will because I like being educative!
over 7 years
do you expect me to read past abstracts at 3am? if there were consensus findings that gender identity and sexual orientation were hard-determined at early development then these things would be common knowledge. that's why those people put that soundbite in their abstract. they want to be famous. how about you tell me how that claim's supported
over 7 years

thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says

why do you think there are significantly more transgender boys to girls than girls to boys


Not sure, I haven't thought about it. What do you think?


masculinity has been shamed and there's no real conflict in our lives


Huh? What does that even mean? I know a lot of people who are openly very masculine. What conflict are you talking about?

Instead, maybe people are just more allowed to be open with their feelings than they were before - which is a good thing. You never answered me as to why it's bad for men to seek help/show emotion.


i'm not gonna get into personality differences of men and women but the things women tend to value have become more accepted than the things men tend to value


If you want to, you should elaborate on this because I sincerely don't know what you mean.
over 7 years

thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says

what's an edc

sexual dimorphism in the brain doesn't mean anything relevant

blatant bias, literally just "there's no evidence that what we don't believe is true"

more sexual dimorphism which doesn't really mean anything relevant


to my (relatively limited) scientific understanding, edc's are environmental chemicals that many are exposed to during their infanthood that impact brain development/hormones

why doesn't it matter? it seems pretty relevant to me - it's saying that gender literally comes from all parts of the brain that are uncontrollable


only one quote you gave said that and i'm not gonna read the article but it didn't sound like the kind of claim which could actually be supported


But a claim like that can be supported, as has been shown by those studies, and from many, many more I would be happy to find for you if you would actually read them, but it seems like you may not be willing to.
over 7 years

projectmatt says


thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says

why do you think there are significantly more transgender boys to girls than girls to boys


Not sure, I haven't thought about it. What do you think?


masculinity has been shamed and there's no real conflict in our lives


Huh? What does that even mean? I know a lot of people who are openly very masculine. What conflict are you talking about?

Instead, maybe people are just more allowed to be open with their feelings than they were before - which is a good thing. You never answered me as to why it's bad for men to seek help/show emotion.


i'm not gonna get into personality differences of men and women but the things women tend to value have become more accepted than the things men tend to value
over 7 years
And it's like sh'it. No wonder trans people want to kill themselves. If they can't reproduce: what the were born for, then they have a moral crisis to deal with
over 7 years

AsbelLhant says

Does the increasingly lack of respect society has towards men contribute to the more men trans than female trans?


I think that a contributing factor might be that the idea that men "have" to be masculine is being challenged, and makes people feel more comfortable with who they are.

I don't know why you think men are being increasingly disrespected, though.
over 7 years

projectmatt says


thecolonel says

what's an edc

sexual dimorphism in the brain doesn't mean anything relevant

blatant bias, literally just "there's no evidence that what we don't believe is true"

more sexual dimorphism which doesn't really mean anything relevant


to my (relatively limited) scientific understanding, edc's are environmental chemicals that many are exposed to during their infanthood that impact brain development/hormones

why doesn't it matter? it seems pretty relevant to me - it's saying that gender literally comes from all parts of the brain that are uncontrollable


only one quote you gave said that and i'm not gonna read the article but it didn't sound like the kind of claim which could actually be supported
over 7 years
Does the increasingly lack of respect society has towards men contribute to the more men trans than female trans?
over 7 years

thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says

why do you think there are significantly more transgender boys to girls than girls to boys


Not sure, I haven't thought about it. What do you think?


masculinity has been shamed and there's no real conflict in our lives


Huh? What does that even mean? I know a lot of people who are openly very masculine. What conflict are you talking about?

Instead, maybe people are just more allowed to be open with their feelings than they were before - which is a good thing. You never answered me as to why it's bad for men to seek help/show emotion.
over 7 years

thecolonel says

what's an edc

sexual dimorphism in the brain doesn't mean anything relevant

blatant bias, literally just "there's no evidence that what we don't believe is true"

more sexual dimorphism which doesn't really mean anything relevant


to my (relatively limited) scientific understanding, edc's are environmental chemicals that many are exposed to during their infanthood that impact brain development/hormones

why doesn't it matter? it seems pretty relevant to me - it's saying that gender literally comes from all parts of the brain that are uncontrollable
over 7 years

projectmatt says


thecolonel says

why do you think there are significantly more transgender boys to girls than girls to boys


Not sure, I haven't thought about it. What do you think?


masculinity has been shamed and there's no real conflict in our lives
over 7 years
Thank you all for hurting my brain for the new year. Wouldn't have it any other way.
over 7 years

projectmatt says

From Winneke Et Al, Environmental Health Perspectives, 2013:

"...We conclude that there is sufficient evidence that EDCs modify behavioral sexual dimorphism in children, presumably by interacting with the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis."

From Chung and Wilson, European Journal of Physiology, 2013:

"Gender-dependent differentiation of the brain has been detected at every level of organization -- morphological, neurochemical, and functional -- and has been shown to be primarily controlled by sex differences in gonadal steroid hormone levels during perinatal development."

From Swaab and Bao, Neuroscience in the 21st Century, 2013:

"Gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender), sexual orientation (hetero-, homo-, or bisexuality) ... are programmed into our brain during early development. There is no evidence that postnatal social environments have any crucial effect on gender identity or sexual orientation."

From Serkan Karaismailoğlu; Ayşen Erdem, Journal of the Turkish-German Gynecological Association, 2013:

"In human males, we show that variation in fetal testosterone (FT) predicts later local gray matter volume of specific brain regions in a direction that is congruent with sexual dimorphism observed in a large independent sample of age-matched males and females from the NIH Pediatric MRI Data Repository.

From Jürgensen, et al., Journal of Pediatric Endocrinology and Metabolism, 2010:

"There is strong evidence that high concentrations of androgens lead to more male-typical behavior and that this also influences gender identity."


what's an edc

sexual dimorphism in the brain doesn't mean anything relevant

blatant bias, literally just "there's no evidence that what we don't believe is true"

more sexual dimorphism which doesn't really mean anything relevant
over 7 years

thecolonel says

why do you think there are significantly more transgender boys to girls than girls to boys


Not sure, I haven't thought about it. What do you think?
over 7 years

thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says

there's a massive disconnect in masculinity across the last 50 years vs the 50 years before that


i think this is a good thing for the most part, but that's probably based on a fundamental disagreement on how people should be. if people are generally breaking gender roles and allowing themselves to be more open about emotions, i think that's good.


good for what?


i think that people tend to be way too insecure about their masculinity, and it's generally harmful toward the population. stuff like "men don't cry" reinforces and prevents males from being open about their emotions and seeking help when they need it because they have an image that they feel like they need to uphold.

if that image of being "strong" and "masculine" isn't as huge anymore, i'm cool with that.


why is men being open about their emotions and looking for help a good thing


mental health is a very important and serious issue, and i think it's silly for men to go through life pretending that they don't have emotions, or that being tough is important.

why is it a bad thing? what's wrong with showing emotion?

also with the world war 2 thing: i do very much think that people back then experienced gender dysphoria, but it wasn't nearly as OK to talk about or be open about back then as it is now.
over 7 years
why do you think there are significantly more transgender boys to girls than girls to boys
over 7 years
From Winneke Et Al, Environmental Health Perspectives, 2013:

"...We conclude that there is sufficient evidence that EDCs modify behavioral sexual dimorphism in children, presumably by interacting with the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis."

From Chung and Wilson, European Journal of Physiology, 2013:

"Gender-dependent differentiation of the brain has been detected at every level of organization -- morphological, neurochemical, and functional -- and has been shown to be primarily controlled by sex differences in gonadal steroid hormone levels during perinatal development."

From Swaab and Bao, Neuroscience in the 21st Century, 2013:

"Gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender), sexual orientation (hetero-, homo-, or bisexuality) ... are programmed into our brain during early development. There is no evidence that postnatal social environments have any crucial effect on gender identity or sexual orientation."

From Serkan Karaismailoğlu; Ayşen Erdem, Journal of the Turkish-German Gynecological Association, 2013:

"In human males, we show that variation in fetal testosterone (FT) predicts later local gray matter volume of specific brain regions in a direction that is congruent with sexual dimorphism observed in a large independent sample of age-matched males and females from the NIH Pediatric MRI Data Repository."

From Jürgensen, et al., Journal of Pediatric Endocrinology and Metabolism, 2010:

"There is strong evidence that high concentrations of androgens lead to more male-typical behavior and that this also influences gender identity."
over 7 years

projectmatt says


thecolonel says


projectmatt says


thecolonel says

there's a massive disconnect in masculinity across the last 50 years vs the 50 years before that


i think this is a good thing for the most part, but that's probably based on a fundamental disagreement on how people should be. if people are generally breaking gender roles and allowing themselves to be more open about emotions, i think that's good.


good for what?


i think that people tend to be way too insecure about their masculinity, and it's generally harmful toward the population. stuff like "men don't cry" reinforces and prevents males from being open about their emotions and seeking help when they need it because they have an image that they feel like they need to uphold.

if that image of being "strong" and "masculine" isn't as huge anymore, i'm cool with that.


why is men being open about their emotions and looking for help a good thing
over 7 years
what did the 15 studies look at? did they find a transgender gene? were transgender parents more likely to raise transgender kids?

do you sincerely believe that the same proportion of transgender people today existed in world war i/ii soldiers who didn't want to express it?
over 7 years
ok but if ur man cant change ur tire then what is the point of keeping them around tbh