Epicmafia

It's time

deletedover 8 years

This website is far past the point where having ranked and unranked games in main lobby makes sense.

Both sandbox and main lobby suffer from this weird choice. Unranked games should go in sandbox, which will boost the ever slowing population of 12 person closed setups, and ranked games should go in main lobby.

Without the influx of unranked games being made, competitive games will not be second paged so fast, and thus fill more often, allowing more than 2 setups to be played each round.

Remove unranked games from main lobby

Yes

Rutab

almost 8 years

Venus says

"Try and push people into other games. " they don't want to play other games. Why force them to.

You missed what I said.

Rutab says

That's okay for them to do so, since we want high activity on the site, but if we can make them want to branch out, we're golden.

deletedalmost 8 years

fnoof says

the mentor system exists on a volunteer basis so there's absolutely no way to enforce their participation, let alone constant presence.

From my noavi thread:

Jimbei says

Revamp the entire mentor system. The fact of the matter is that the mentor system does not get much attention, and you either have to actively seek out being a mentee, or be in a close relationship with your mentor, and at either point of time you'd likely have enough experience to not necessarily need one. My suggestion for this is rapidly increase the amount of mentors, but moreso let mentors add mentees without needing a mod to do it. That way, if new players are on the site, we can encourage people to link them to the mentor page to PM any of them to become a mentee, instead of constantly policy'ing them, reporting them, and publicly shaming them for not having experience.

This is just an idea, don't take this as the actual suggestion but it's something I would like to expand on and give a better more serious suggestion if it would be considered.

deletedalmost 8 years

Golbolco says

fnoof says

the mentor system exists on a volunteer basis so there's absolutely no way to enforce their participation, let alone constant presence.

Good-willed people are pretty common.

let me forecast the punchline: "but they're all in sandbox"

deletedalmost 8 years

"Try and push people into other games. " they don't want to play other games. Why force them to.

Golbolco

almost 8 years

fnoof says

the mentor system exists on a volunteer basis so there's absolutely no way to enforce their participation, let alone constant presence.

Good-willed people are pretty common.

deletedalmost 8 years

Jimbei says

Venus says

Training doesn't work.

This idea won't work either

suggest something else

oh I didn't say this would work. Lol.

Rutab

almost 8 years

fnoof says

arials92 says

I understand that. But IMAGINE a ton of new players going into a ranked game and asking "what's lylo" "how am I guilty" "what role am i?" "what's a blue?" It's not only annoying but it really hinders the ranked games. The point is that they aren't moderated for game-related violations so that the players can make a few mistakes before going into ranked.

Try going into a ranked game knowing nothing, say something wrong, and get banned day one because you didn't know what to do.

we need to reevaluate the way we introduce the game to new players, i guess. there's no guarantee that another player in those unranked games will be personable and helpful if you are new, either.

Mostly everyone inside the competitive ring absolutely hates classic mafia, fancy pants, and other easier/coin-flip setups. However, they are very good starting blocks into ranked mafia. They provide basic knowledge on simple mechanics and preliminary gameplay strategies. From these setups, users are able to use their new skills and build upon them as they explore harder setups with different roles and strategies. Eventually, they'll be competitive-ready. That's the only true way to learn.

Now, the real struggle is seeing if we can find ways to push those classic/FP players into harder games, because, a lot of the time, those users like to stay with those setups only. That's okay for them to do so, since we want high activity on the site, but if we can make them want to branch out, we're golden.

This isn't a very new discussion or way of thinking, but it very well applies to right now.

coolkidrox123

almost 8 years

Blister says

it's up to the more experienced players in the game to guide new players along, but the fact remains that 5 unranked games do NOT prepare you for ranked in any way, shape or form. neither does 50, nor 500.

it doesnt cause the toxic nature of ranked where you get yelled at for the littlest of things and newbs get reproted for making rookie mustakes. in such an invironment. no way anyone can learn or adapt or become good

deletedalmost 8 years

the mentor system exists on a volunteer basis so there's absolutely no way to enforce their participation, let alone constant presence.

deletedalmost 8 years

Venus says

Training doesn't work.

This idea won't work either

suggest something else

deletedalmost 8 years

Training doesn't work.

deletedalmost 8 years

fnoof says

we need to reevaluate the way we introduce the game to new players, i guess. there's no guarantee that another player in those unranked games will be personable and helpful if you are new, either.

If we want to re-evaluate how they are introduced then re-try a training lobby.

Possible ideas would be to have at least one mentor in each unranked game to help new players out.

Try to add a mentor option when someone first joins the site so that they can immediately have someone helping them.

Best case scenario would be to have a mentor chat where a team of mentors would pick different people out and help them through (at least) their first game. But I understand that's a huge addition and would take a long time to implement.

deletedalmost 8 years

that's a sandbox joke in case you didn't get it

deletedalmost 8 years

Rutab says

Let's make new users take an IQ test and those who fall below average get moved into their own special lobby. Only the academically elite players can play competitive games, and the other ones can just be stupid together in unranked games.

Problem solved :D

This user is being sent to games lobby

Rutab

almost 8 years

Let's make new users take an IQ test and those who fall below average get moved into their own special lobby. Only the academically elite players can play competitive games, and the other ones can just be stupid together in unranked games.

Problem solved :D

deletedalmost 8 years

sl0nderman says

fnoof says

those 5 unranked games can go a million different ways, none of which i can say with any confidence would benefit a new player. they aren't moderated for game-related violations and don't mandate a subscription to the basics.

In any game you will experience the day/night cycle, possibly a night meeting, seeing the mafia kill someone, and a lynching session. Those are the absolute basics.

i was speaking strictly in terms of ranked play, for which the unranked requirement was introduced to begin with.

sl0nderman

almost 8 years

I have a post from a user who lacks the required points to make one:

space says

i really don't think that any of the common/popular unranked games in main would last long in sandbox

this is like what happened to the most-played training lobby setups when training and comp merged into main

i support main only having ranked games, but i think maybe there's room for considering bringing back training lobby under that same name. training was a more lax lobby for learning to play mafia with fun unranked setups like SITD and ranked setups like reverse and fancy pants. the truth is the people who really want rigorous mafia play are people who have already been here. in the almost 3 years i've been here the majority of the people i've seen post in "why did you join" type threads wanted to play something like mafia online (or slasher on the now-defunct the-n site) that was fun. the fun in playing more strategic mafia games often but not exclusively comes later on. for this reason, training lobby is a good default lobby for new users. it would ideally be second tab to encourage people to go to main or sandbox if and when they decide to branch out.

also just a sidenote: since this is a decision that would potentially affect all lobbies, maybe we can consider lifting the 100 point minimum so more folks can contribute to the conversation?

deletedalmost 8 years

arials92 says

I understand that. But IMAGINE a ton of new players going into a ranked game and asking "what's lylo" "how am I guilty" "what role am i?" "what's a blue?" It's not only annoying but it really hinders the ranked games. The point is that they aren't moderated for game-related violations so that the players can make a few mistakes before going into ranked.

Try going into a ranked game knowing nothing, say something wrong, and get banned day one because you didn't know what to do.

we need to reevaluate the way we introduce the game to new players, i guess. there's no guarantee that another player in those unranked games will be personable and helpful if you are new, either.

sl0nderman

almost 8 years

fnoof says

those 5 unranked games can go a million different ways, none of which i can say with any confidence would benefit a new player. they aren't moderated for game-related violations and don't mandate a subscription to the basics.

In any game you will experience the day/night cycle, possibly a night meeting, seeing the mafia kill someone, and a lynching session. Those are the absolute basics.

SirAmelio

almost 8 years

SirAmelio says

whatever decision is made should be consulted to the community of both lobbies and see what the people think.

deletedalmost 8 years

I understand that. But IMAGINE a ton of new players going into a ranked game and asking "what's lylo" "how am I guilty" "what role am i?" "what's a blue?" It's not only annoying but it really hinders the ranked games. The point is that they aren't moderated for game-related violations so that the players can make a few mistakes before going into ranked.

Try going into a ranked game knowing nothing, say something wrong, and get banned day one because you didn't know what to do.

deletedalmost 8 years

Jimbei says

my first game was a 25 player anon game where everyone told Canada to go kill themself

That's the best introduction that anyone could get to epic mafia

really depends on which games you plan on playing as you go along.

deletedalmost 8 years

my first game was a 25 player anon game where everyone told Canada to go kill themself

That's the best introduction that anyone could get to epic mafia

deletedalmost 8 years

those 5 unranked games can go a million different ways, none of which i can say with any confidence would benefit a new player. they aren't moderated for game-related violations and don't mandate a subscription to the basics.

deletedalmost 8 years

Alright anyways here's my thoughts in a clear manner:

*Sandbox is a trial lobby. Though not used as one currently, yes, players are trying to make it less closed role and more creative. This could take a while.

*Even with this, Sandbox is not a serious lobby. it
is for "fun" and relaxation rather than trying to
learn the game.

*Bringing back a training lobby would give new players a chance to learn the game before going competitive. Training lobby would be a more serious version and would still blacklist some setups, as it is TRAINING for competitive lobby.

*Because back in the day competitive lobby did not have a lot of players, it may be in the best interest to merge red hearts and gold hearts for one lobby.

*Bringing back a training lobby would put a use to the mentors for once. As of now, I rarely see a mentor actually mentoring players. Training lobby would be a fantastic place to mentor new players.

*Keep the 5 game rule. New players need to learn the lingo, roles, etc. It's important.