THE TITLE IS WRONG AND I CANT EDIT IT. IM ASKING FOR PROMOTING OTHER SETUPS IN REDHEARTS, JUST SO FP/CLASSIC AREN'T THE MOST PLAYED SETUPS AS THEY PROMOTE LAZY MAFIA.
Reasons why they should NOT BE THE DEFAULT SETUP OF MAIN LOBBY:
promote NLing D1 for insta lylo
promote following clears mindlessly
are overly reliant on mechanics instead of on actual scumhunting
are extremely luck based and promote passive town play which leads to all other setups have higher maf win ratios
coinflips are bad
promote CC fights instead of actual behaviour reading
reliance on swing elements that make the whole game a farce (FP in particular)
inflate bad players' win ratios making them think they are better than they really are
Compare FP and Classic to Elementary School education that vies you the bare basics while other setups like VDLI are more akin to high school/university. Which prepares you more for the real world?
deletedalmost 10 years
theres bad players everywhere lol
and tbh attitudes like this are why people stray away from comp /o/
Because the new players who play Fancy Pants and Classic end up thinking that NL all day follow the clears don't think about anything is the default way to play when it's NOT.
I ask that players who're introduced to mafia be introduced to quality setups that require thinking, reasoning, communication, and reading people.
You can play FP and Classic as much as you want, but it should NOT be the introductory setup for new players. The problem is that because those two are the most popular setups in the lobby, new players inevitably end up playing them and getting accustomed to their play patterns WHICH IN TURN makes them surprised and intimidated in joining gold hearts because that's now what they learned how to play. They learned to mindlessly click through things and end games in 5 minutes.
deletedalmost 10 years
OK, I accept that. I also find it weird. Funny. Perhaps even miserable.
When the site started, there were no gold hearts or red hearts, just "ranked" and "comp" using the same hearts. Comp games gave double points. The way the site was setup, you sacrificed a lot more playing ranked games, so people never did so. Hence why the site was mostly competitive.
But now that's not the case. Red and gold are two different things, and red are clearly more popular nowadays. Banning FP will do nothing. People will still play other setups red heart, even if you force them to play "comp" setups, such as VDLI, they will STILL play them red hearts, and play them "simply" (such as mostly just following the clear). Nothing will happen by restricting play, all it will do is make things worse. Heck, at least with FP they get multisetups now.
The only step in the right direction was with featured setups, where you encouraged people to try different setups instead of restricting the number of setups they can play. The idea just wasn't hyped enough or used efficiently and has mostly failed because of that. But like I said before, banning FP solves nothing. Comp is no longer the heart of the site and instead of punishing those that play red hearts by taken away their setups, you should be thinking of ways to better make comp more appealing.
deletedalmost 10 years
The few people who continue past the point of random-clicking are terrible and either unwilling to learn or so stuck in their ways after tens of thousands of points that you just can't undo it.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing FP and Classic. Just make it so the first setups new people play are ACTUAL setups that prepare them for comp.
They can then decide if they want to continue playing comp, or choose more casual games to play and have fun with.
deletedalmost 10 years
How exactly are people in comp suffering from people enjoying playing fancy pants?
Why should people in training, who make up a larger player base than comp, have their favorite set ups banned simply because you don't like them?
FP is very close to/is a point farm. The amount of time the average game of FP takes is just over the assigned limit where things are considered pointfarms. I'm not saying that you should force players to join comp, lucid specifically stated that he didn't want to do that. What I'm saying is that the most common and easily accessible setups in the main lobby shouldn't make it hard for people that actually want to play comp to play comp. I remember when I first came into comp after grinding up to it on Classic mafia, and I was royally awful. It took me a decently large portion of time to get good at comp post-getting there. I ruined a lot of games via being an awful player. I had my sights set on comp as soon as I joined the site. Most other people who dabble in comp and immediately suck will just go back to what they've figured out how to win in; fancy pants.
To summarise, it isn't that fancy pants isn't a perfectly fine setup for people to play, it's that it needs to cover less than 90-95% of the played red heart setups. (Guns and hookers is the same style of setup and is being counted as it for that percentage range.)
You're missing the point though, I am not against people playing setups they like.
What I am against is when doing so results in a less prepared playerbase for comp. Does enjoying your setup mean that people who enjoy comp should suffer because of the subpar players FP and Classic produces?
deletedalmost 10 years
You missed the point. Whatever training was suppose to be, its purpose has obviously changed.
If you don't like training, you can stick to comp games. What people play in training doesn't affect you.
deletedalmost 10 years
Yeah but there's a pretty significant difference between "in ranked play" and "in setup freedom". Granted I haven't read the thread but I assume it's another urinestorm of banning the setups that don't actually teach anything towards Competitive play (or anything else for that matter). Yeah, lucid wants a friendly community where you're free to do whatever you can, but this is the same guy who once advocated shrooms to Mafia players. There's nothing to lose from banning these kind of setups besides maybe a slight drop in player numbers.
deletedalmost 10 years
Just because people in your eyes are not making the right "choice," does not mean you get to ban the alternative option for them when they clearly enjoy it.
also if u dont like something that doesnt mean everyone else doesnt, ranked FP and classic isnt really hurting anyone, plus you can learn how to play comp right if you actually want to so....
