deletedover 13 years

I would post the game in question but the suspension doesn't allow me to enter games and check which one.

There are a few issues. In game I told everyone why I would not out my reports. During D1 everyone was set on lynching my fake ccs guilty. My innocent may have very well have aided mafia more than aided town as giving them an additional wifom option to utilize as they saw fit. I asked clearly why I should out it and the reasons given were to me, unpersuasive and unsubstantial. I was open to discuss it further but no one else was. This is more of an impatient intolerance on the towns part than anything else. It may be said, however, that this represent incompetence on my part and due to the progression of the game, specifically me getting lynched and the fake cc living it was. Incompetence is not a punishable offense. It is an implicit part of who gets assigned cop. Some are good and agreeable and some are not. Just as you could not justly punish a person who plays their first ranked game and doesnt out their cop report out of noobishness and you would not punish a semi-experienced player for, let's say, faking guilty on townie who had bad reaction and not outing the innocent because the reaction was sufficiently guilty to him, you cannot punish an experienced player like myself for analyzing the mechanics of the set up and judging it unfavorable out reports.

There was also a greater point I was trying to make. I have found in my experience of playing EM that people players which consider themselves to be skilled develop biases. These biases can manifest in many ways but what is of concern here are the types which make players jump to a conclusion of auto-mafia. I have found not outing reports as cop is one of them. Players have become hyper-sensitive to it. Even the timing of a report seems to have some intrinsic weight in determining the mafia/town. This is in my view erroneous. It allows for one of the most counter-productive mind sets, what I call (for lack of a better term) “event over trend” mindset. This occurs when player(s) finds a singular occurrence so utterly convincing they ignore all other events in the game and focus on it only. It is almost like unintentional, event aimed tunneling. This is the principle part I was standing on. I do not indulge in towns counter-productive practices. I presented that principle and doing so actually reinforced their bias and got me lynched with more enthusiasm. Not a single player made any comment to suggest that the outing of reports would make me look more cop like, they simply wanted it as safety precaution in case I was cop they would have something. I believe this behavior harms the EM community and the quality of games on EM and thus I rebel against it. I hope but doubt that the players will think twice about judging so quickly.

There is another problem and that is the problem of freedom and rules. To my knowledge, there are no rules which mandate a pr to out a report under any circumstances. Because of this, it falls in the realm of player discretion (as it ought). Because of this to punish me is really an attempt at a certain type of censorship, a censorship against play styles. If it is conception and desire of the PR it must be dealt with it lest it can be proven to be intentionally malicious. This is also distinguished from trolling which would be doing so for no reason at all. This case was not a troll nor an act of malice but my way of playing in response to the game itself, concerns for the community and the set up itself. I was going to be lynched either way and my reports were going to be doubted and largely discredited due to the Guisers. It would have put town in a relatively identical situation. It may have been frustrating for town but that is irrelevant. For these reasons I believe my case deserves no punishment.

deletedover 13 years
I still think youre grabbing at straws, but whatever.

Can you explain to me what you meant by, "Guiser filled set up gives mafia wifom power with knowledge of innocent reports."
deletedover 13 years
Investigate it please. And then ban that person. But about the matter at hand, I really do not believe I should have been suspended.
deletedover 13 years
I apologize for accusing you of that then

However, I will find out if you end up being the same person, so....
deletedover 13 years
Let me spell it out for you. Whoever that PxxxWang person is, it is not me. I have no affiliation with them at all. The fact that you would believe them based on the one sentence in the game is shocking to me.
deletedover 13 years
Who ever that is has something against me. That is not me at all. I am frankly astonished not only for your level of suggestibility but the lengths at which someone has gone to tarnish my rep.
deletedover 13 years
deletedover 13 years
I posted XXX material?!?!? What?!!?!!?

I did not troll. You seem to have made up your mind about the situation way before I could present an argument. You can not even explain that reasons behind what you did and yet you accuse me of grabbing at straws? Nice.

Sorry, Dave I misinterpreted your comment a bit. Though I do think a history of punishment based on debatable accusations are an abuse of power which is what you seem to be saying.
deletedover 13 years
davegrohl, leonardo is obviously grabbing at straws right now. That's why Im no longer replying to him because it was like arguing at a brick wall. Not to mention leo posted xxx material today, so he should be thankful he's not banned (yet)

as for riot, if it was for the game play alone, I woulnt have suspended him, because I could see it as either bad play or trolling. However....when he admitted to trolling, I assumed that meant he was trolling. My bad
over 13 years
Germ, the suspension on Riot was the same kind of thing. It worries me a little. I don't want EM to become a cookie cutter game with no imagination.

Leo, I wasn't suggesting mod's abusing power. I was suggesting that maybe they are being a bit overzealous and need to look more at the possibility of a failed attempt at trying something different...
deletedover 13 years
It is not that I thought not outing would be beneficial per se. I thought outing would be harmful. I said in the original post, Guiser filled set up gives mafia wifom power with knowledge of innocent reports. I have listed other things through out this forum too.
deletedover 13 years
sure

mind explaining to me why you thought not outing your cop report would be beneficial to town? If you were testing out a new strat, you must have had some theory
deletedover 13 years
Finally, if mods are abusing their power as Dave suggests, perhaps this topic may shed light on it. I would like Germ to respond as he was the one who seemingly suspended me.
deletedover 13 years
Thank you Laexio. That was it.

Niko- There are 2 things wrong with your “can't test in ranked” idea. Your alternative of trying new strategies in unranked is unrealistic. It is an entirely different game in unranked as our collective experiences can attest to. A test there would not be valid because unranked does not accurately emulate the ways players act in ranked. A deeper issue exists in the idea of not testing ideas in ranked. Experimentation is one of the pillars of EM and an extremely important one too. Without it we would lose creativity, lateral thinking aspects and dynamic nature of EM. To suggest testing in competitive is a no-no is a mentality that could potentially destroy EM.

Wonder- My viewpoints on the human mind is not an issue especially since you didn’t raise any specific issues, you made a general blanket statement which as of yet means nothing to the discussion. The game proves my viewpoint rather than detracts from it. Your latter points are imo based upon an incorrect analysis of the game. There was no significant mention of the guilty as verifying the cop. There was however much said about me not outing reports. Because of this we must assume that the town was really focuses on the report outing and nothing more and my philosophical analysis was more correct than you make it to be. Remember as well no one stopped and thought that my out of wack and abnormal behavior was a reflection of being town, they all thought mafia, which is their fault not mine.

LOL & Edge- There are no formal publicly available rules to my knowledge which prove suggest either of your claims. That is a fault of the masters of this site not me. To claim I ought to know unwritten laws is a highly corrupt claim. Parallels to pre-Hammurabi's code can be made for those so inclined. I also explained how outing reports could have assisted mafia and since that has yet to be refuted I believe I am right.
over 13 years
Leonardo, I think this is what you're looking for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
deletedover 13 years
Dave meant mine actually, he was talking about it in game with me, Germ.
deletedover 13 years
More responses than I expected. This may lead to something more than I thought.

Before I start responding there is something that needs be cleared out now. This topic is made for a specific issue; a mods decision suspension in response to game 43766 and the merits or lack of merits of that decision. Several of you have mentioned my suicides and other play behaviors. While I may be at fault for them, talking about that is akin to the "attacking the messenger" propaganda technique and will only distract from the issue which is relevant.I do not necessarily believe that is the intention but that is certainly an effect. If my play record is an issue a new topic may be made at anyone's discretion and I would respond to that there. I will respond to the comments shortly.
deletedover 13 years
" In the last few days, I have seen the Mods starting to lean towards suspending people for playing outside the expected script. "

examples plox
over 13 years
HE SUICIDES OUT OF EVERY DAMN GAME AND AFKS. Its annoying as hell. Its out of no where. Its not even a rage suicide. We are just mid game and he will suicide. No word. No warning. He just does it.
over 13 years
Leonardo hardly EVER outs reports in any setup. It's a rather odd way to play imo.
deletedover 13 years
Surprised no one has raised this before or his suicide rate. That is quite high.
over 13 years
The sad thing is that this is the most leonardo has said ever, even in the games.
over 13 years
Leonardo you should be suspended for suiciding out of EVERY OTHER GAME. DAMN you deserve to be banned for all your suicides!
deletedover 13 years
Sorry, got invited to go out and watch a film.

Will agree with Wonderland here and most of the others, it's the wrong place for testing. If you want to try something like that, try and arrange a private game on the forum, I'm sure there'd be some willing to try it out.

Perhaps the punishment was quite harsh, but it still wasn't 'correct' play.
deletedover 13 years
Oh, I don't think a suspension was needed,
who reported him?
We won either way, and town were being douches to Leo and outting his reports didn't mean too much in the guiser setup.
over 13 years
"-You wanted the town to learn for their actions and you were willing to "take the fall" in a hope that some people "learn" that the reason you thought they were lynching you was philosophically wrong."

This was why you were suspended, not because you didn't out the reports d1. You played against your win condition to prove your point. That's perfectly within the bounds of suspending.