deletedover 13 years

I would post the game in question but the suspension doesn't allow me to enter games and check which one.

There are a few issues. In game I told everyone why I would not out my reports. During D1 everyone was set on lynching my fake ccs guilty. My innocent may have very well have aided mafia more than aided town as giving them an additional wifom option to utilize as they saw fit. I asked clearly why I should out it and the reasons given were to me, unpersuasive and unsubstantial. I was open to discuss it further but no one else was. This is more of an impatient intolerance on the towns part than anything else. It may be said, however, that this represent incompetence on my part and due to the progression of the game, specifically me getting lynched and the fake cc living it was. Incompetence is not a punishable offense. It is an implicit part of who gets assigned cop. Some are good and agreeable and some are not. Just as you could not justly punish a person who plays their first ranked game and doesnt out their cop report out of noobishness and you would not punish a semi-experienced player for, let's say, faking guilty on townie who had bad reaction and not outing the innocent because the reaction was sufficiently guilty to him, you cannot punish an experienced player like myself for analyzing the mechanics of the set up and judging it unfavorable out reports.

There was also a greater point I was trying to make. I have found in my experience of playing EM that people players which consider themselves to be skilled develop biases. These biases can manifest in many ways but what is of concern here are the types which make players jump to a conclusion of auto-mafia. I have found not outing reports as cop is one of them. Players have become hyper-sensitive to it. Even the timing of a report seems to have some intrinsic weight in determining the mafia/town. This is in my view erroneous. It allows for one of the most counter-productive mind sets, what I call (for lack of a better term) “event over trend” mindset. This occurs when player(s) finds a singular occurrence so utterly convincing they ignore all other events in the game and focus on it only. It is almost like unintentional, event aimed tunneling. This is the principle part I was standing on. I do not indulge in towns counter-productive practices. I presented that principle and doing so actually reinforced their bias and got me lynched with more enthusiasm. Not a single player made any comment to suggest that the outing of reports would make me look more cop like, they simply wanted it as safety precaution in case I was cop they would have something. I believe this behavior harms the EM community and the quality of games on EM and thus I rebel against it. I hope but doubt that the players will think twice about judging so quickly.

There is another problem and that is the problem of freedom and rules. To my knowledge, there are no rules which mandate a pr to out a report under any circumstances. Because of this, it falls in the realm of player discretion (as it ought). Because of this to punish me is really an attempt at a certain type of censorship, a censorship against play styles. If it is conception and desire of the PR it must be dealt with it lest it can be proven to be intentionally malicious. This is also distinguished from trolling which would be doing so for no reason at all. This case was not a troll nor an act of malice but my way of playing in response to the game itself, concerns for the community and the set up itself. I was going to be lynched either way and my reports were going to be doubted and largely discredited due to the Guisers. It would have put town in a relatively identical situation. It may have been frustrating for town but that is irrelevant. For these reasons I believe my case deserves no punishment.

over 6 years
how did this not get deleted

holy fcuk this was epic
deletedabout 12 years
ladies and gentlemen, your administrator
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iCon, thats not the point of this debate. I'll be the first to say leo is an idiot (and a hero for showing zovea his penis) but that's beside the point. Germ failed his duties as a moderator.
deletedover 13 years
The topic is about Germ's decision not my suboptimal choices. I appreciate the advice and will release the reports next time.
over 13 years
I don't think it was right for you to be punished, but I also don't think you were right in not outing your reports.
deletedover 13 years
iConfess, I already refuted those arguments. You can not punish for suboptimal play.
over 13 years
I vaguely remember this game and distinctly remember being mafia. Refusing to out reports is one thing, and refusing to out reports for a reason is another. I don't remember you ever stating your case as to WHY you didn't want to out your reports. The town sees the lack of outing reports as anti-town, withholding information that could possibly benefit the overall comprehension of town's position. If you think maf will use the reports for their own case because of wifom possibilities, perhaps you should have told this to town and supported your "principle" with an actual reason. To my recollection, decent players were among us on town and they should be experienced enough to certainly be cognizant of maf's ability to point out possible wifom of the reports. I think, ultimately, outing reports would have done much less harm than refusing to out them.
over 13 years
Remember, in a guiser setup, innocent reports are useless, as guisers can guise innocents. Going to the grave with a report because you think the innocent is guised would be a valid strategy.

The cop is not just there to serve the town. They have to make an effort to win, using their extra information to their advantage.

See, regardless of this debate, the fact that we can debate it means that Germatron does not have the right to decide leo is playing against his objective, as intent is relevant to that, and germatron is not leo, and can't know his intent without asking.
over 13 years
Yes, but rules don't govern how you play a setup. You can't decide that someone is making a dumb play that will hurt the town, even if it does.
over 13 years
unf moderating a game like this is entirely judgment calls as every case is different and blanket rules do not cover organic growth in a game
over 13 years
Germ, you made a judgment call on intent. That is not part of your job description, to my knowledge. Mods are supposed to make people follow rules, however, the way you play a setup is not a rule, but rather, a strategy gets developed over time.

Your failure to see this shows that you are bringing too much of your own bias into the process, and makes me think you're not very well suited to your position as moderator.