deletedabout 13 years

I would post the game in question but the suspension doesn't allow me to enter games and check which one.

There are a few issues. In game I told everyone why I would not out my reports. During D1 everyone was set on lynching my fake ccs guilty. My innocent may have very well have aided mafia more than aided town as giving them an additional wifom option to utilize as they saw fit. I asked clearly why I should out it and the reasons given were to me, unpersuasive and unsubstantial. I was open to discuss it further but no one else was. This is more of an impatient intolerance on the towns part than anything else. It may be said, however, that this represent incompetence on my part and due to the progression of the game, specifically me getting lynched and the fake cc living it was. Incompetence is not a punishable offense. It is an implicit part of who gets assigned cop. Some are good and agreeable and some are not. Just as you could not justly punish a person who plays their first ranked game and doesnt out their cop report out of noobishness and you would not punish a semi-experienced player for, let's say, faking guilty on townie who had bad reaction and not outing the innocent because the reaction was sufficiently guilty to him, you cannot punish an experienced player like myself for analyzing the mechanics of the set up and judging it unfavorable out reports.

There was also a greater point I was trying to make. I have found in my experience of playing EM that people players which consider themselves to be skilled develop biases. These biases can manifest in many ways but what is of concern here are the types which make players jump to a conclusion of auto-mafia. I have found not outing reports as cop is one of them. Players have become hyper-sensitive to it. Even the timing of a report seems to have some intrinsic weight in determining the mafia/town. This is in my view erroneous. It allows for one of the most counter-productive mind sets, what I call (for lack of a better term) “event over trend” mindset. This occurs when player(s) finds a singular occurrence so utterly convincing they ignore all other events in the game and focus on it only. It is almost like unintentional, event aimed tunneling. This is the principle part I was standing on. I do not indulge in towns counter-productive practices. I presented that principle and doing so actually reinforced their bias and got me lynched with more enthusiasm. Not a single player made any comment to suggest that the outing of reports would make me look more cop like, they simply wanted it as safety precaution in case I was cop they would have something. I believe this behavior harms the EM community and the quality of games on EM and thus I rebel against it. I hope but doubt that the players will think twice about judging so quickly.

There is another problem and that is the problem of freedom and rules. To my knowledge, there are no rules which mandate a pr to out a report under any circumstances. Because of this, it falls in the realm of player discretion (as it ought). Because of this to punish me is really an attempt at a certain type of censorship, a censorship against play styles. If it is conception and desire of the PR it must be dealt with it lest it can be proven to be intentionally malicious. This is also distinguished from trolling which would be doing so for no reason at all. This case was not a troll nor an act of malice but my way of playing in response to the game itself, concerns for the community and the set up itself. I was going to be lynched either way and my reports were going to be doubted and largely discredited due to the Guisers. It would have put town in a relatively identical situation. It may have been frustrating for town but that is irrelevant. For these reasons I believe my case deserves no punishment.

deletedabout 13 years
It really is not that clear cut.
deletedabout 13 years
I don't need to defend the position that our perceptive faculties treat the sky as blue.
deletedabout 13 years
If you want to take a position, you ought to offer an argument for it. Don't just name call the side you disagree with. That is not conducive for any sort of progress.
deletedabout 13 years
Also I have no idea what's going on here but Leonardo is a serious player, not a troll, and if you think otherwise then you're an ignorant moron.
deletedabout 13 years
No.  
deletedabout 13 years
Crank did you read the entire topic?
deletedabout 13 years
What of the karma, the XXX material and my inability to play games now? Answer my posts completely please before you jump to accusing me of being a troll.
deletedabout 13 years
We wouldn't have to deal with these stupid controversies if lucid would man up and make idiocy a bannable offense.
deletedabout 13 years
please explain to me how someone can not out reports in spite of someone, while at the same time say they didnt out reports because they were bad and didnt realize reports matter.

Saying you were mad at the players so you decided to do something to spite them, and then saying that you didnt realize what you did would harm town is obviously contradicting itself.

Looking forward to your new argument
deletedabout 13 years
I have been losing karma through out doing nothing else but posting on this topic. We have two separate accounts of people attacking me: Once with the XXX stuff and now with the karma. Will these be looked into?

Also, I can not join any games. Is there a reason for that?
deletedabout 13 years
Incompetence is not something to be suspended over. Disagreeing with everyone else isn't either. So to say I am not good really just proves the mods were wrong. One could also argue, since no one mentioned the specified benefits of my outing reports (which I asked for) all the towns were playing against their win condition and they should all be suspended too. There were other arguments made aside from the incompetence one but acknowledging them may force the mods to admit they were wrong and well it seems that must be avoided at all costs.

Also, Germ, key word: PARTIALLY. A human being can do something and have more than one motivation and have some of those motivations be coincidental or unnecessary. Hence it is neither a troll or a contradiction. It was wrongful suspension.
deletedabout 13 years
i want your opinion :(
deletedabout 13 years
adrian you will read it and give your opinion damnit!
deletedabout 13 years
it's been over awhile
deletedabout 13 years
isnt this suspension almost over? -_-
deletedabout 13 years
"I was also partially taking a stand against their hatefulness as well."

"There, my not outing reports was incompetence,"

contradicting yourself and admitting to trolling

are we done here?
about 13 years
Well, one of the deeper issues is that you are just not very good and don't seem to care to improve, Leo.

That ain't the mods fault...
deletedabout 13 years
Thank you for the support Super. Again Germ, I find your attitude to be shocking. How can you, as a mod, believe that rude, insulting or cruel social interaction do not matter? In fact, I would say those issues are far more worrisome than anything else in this topic. I was also partially taking a stand against their hatefulness as well. But of course I am sure to LOL and Germ that does not matter.

As for the whole guise test thing... I forgot. There, my not outing reports was incompetence, no one in game reminded me that was how it would benefit specifically because they were too busy bashing me and it's back to square 1. It ties back to the whole malicious thing I posted before and it also ties back to my whole questioning about what is really subject to punishment which has been ignored. Other things that I could say to defend are: Having a policy against guise testing, believing meta things are cheating, your analysis being too simple and based on ifs, in game they even didn't want to guise test and many other things which again I wrote and are being ignored. The mods seem to be demanding that players play according to a certain script which will ruin this game, I assure you. Also, where are the rules that say one has to play for their win condition in a linear fashion? I still did not receive a response on that matter.

I will play more but these issues are EM issues imo. It seems the mod don't want to look at the deeper issues at all.
deletedabout 13 years
it does ;)
deletedabout 13 years
why does town being asses matter?
deletedabout 13 years
ew, I just said imo twicee
deletedabout 13 years
Suspension wasn't necessary, town were asses :P
and he has a point as the reports were not as important.
You can give him a warning imo, but his explanation is fine imo
deletedabout 13 years
"I was going to be lynched either way and my reports were going to be doubted and largely discredited due to the Guisers. It would have put town in a relatively identical situation."

outing reports would help town while not outing reports would harm town, it's not the same situation at all. There are guise tests and the like to counter guiser.
about 13 years
The setup you were playing makes it so that innos are clear. Meaning if they can be guise tested and cleared of being disguised they are clear. You refusing to out your reports even when facing a lynch to try to teach the town was wrong. It was playing against your win condition which was why you were suspended. It doesn't matter how much you argue your point. You were wrong. You were suspended. Get over it and go play more.
deletedabout 13 years
To town the reports are debatable annoyances since it clears no one really. For mafia it allows them to manipulate kills/guises to confuse town as much as possible. That is what that sentence means. I wrote much more than just that in justifying my actions however.