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PoliticallyCorrect
about 6 years

Now as some of you may know we now have a "new" rule that has just been implemented.

Racial Slurs

Malicious use of slurs against players that are based on race and/or ethnicity. We will show absolutely no tolerance towards racist and xenophobic ideals.

Expires in 6 months

1) Warning

2) Site Ban

Now as Giga13 has already noted. Racist remarks are already covered in the current Hateful Comments rule.

Hateful Comments

Any form of severe or excessive hate speech or hateful language based on race, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, mental capabilities, and other personal circumstances.

Meaning the new rule is redundant, and mainly just serves to increase penalties, and virtue signal.

I think the main problem with the rules is not the quantity, but clarity and enforcement.

So to increase clarity I would recommend changing the Hateful Comments rule to this:

Hateful Comments

Using hateful language with the intent to degrade, discriminate against, or humiliate another person.

Since we are all human, everyone is covered by this rule, and equally protected.

People shouldn't be banned only based on the content of their messages.

But instead also take into account the intent and the context of their messages.

Because I can say the same exact words with completely different meaning in different contexts. Like saying "I killed him." when playing a video game, verses saying "I killed him." after being asked if you committed a murder.

Now I have a perfect example of this:

Recently JM123 managed to receive the very first Racial Slurs Vio.

JM123 wrote: >half of the site will get banned my n'igga

But fortunately our hero BSM sprinted to the occasion and reported this heinous offender.

https://epicmafia.com/report/258927

Result: JM123 received Racial Slurs 1st - Warning

So what went wrong?

Lets first look at the context: JM123 was voicing his disagreement with the creation of a controversial policy. https://epicmafia.com/topic/91047?page=3&post_highlight=3131016

Now lets look at the intent: JM123 wished to express his view, that the enforcement of such a policy would result in many players being banned.

Finally lets look at the content: >half of the site will get banned my n'igga

Obviously the controversial word is n'igga, however I would argue that JM123 has not violated the Racial Slurs rules which is defined as: "Malicious use of slurs against players that are based on race"

While some people may consider n'igga to be a slur, JM123 did not use it maliciously against other players, or people to demean them.

In fact it is often used even till this day as a term of endearment between friends.

So the main issue in this occasion is the interpretation and enforcement of the Racial Slurs rule.

The result of this will be a chilling effect on freespeech, as I might be vio'd for simply discussing this topic right here and now.

Even though my intent is not to demean or be racist towards any person, but rather to allow people to joke and speak freely and only be punished when they are truly being hateful.

The letter of the law does not line up with interpretation of it.

Currently as it stands the real definition of Racial Slurs is

Racial Slurs:

Using n'igga or n-word no matter what your intent is.

This I believe is a very poor way to address things as heavy handed censorship doesn't actually protect the vulnerable, but simply stifles conversation and an open exchange of ideas.

TLDR:

- People should only be vio'd based on the intent and context of their messages.

- Bullies should be targeted not simply people who disagree with you.

Jeff: 'People outside of communities can stop virtue signaling their offense for the people within them. It’s a tired and gross practice to be offended for others who are not. It serves the purpose of trying to be holier than thou and is an ugly way to defend your point.'

Volta's Slur Whitelist: https://epicmafia.com/topic/91071?page=2

Check my story, The Peoples Village https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q2yeMDXdG69ngAz3gw_0HWQoXNGPf479EW4BD369alY/edit?usp=sharing

Sources:

Songin New Rule Suggestion: https://epicmafia.com/topic/91047?page=3&post_highlight=3131016

Giga13 Response: https://epicmafia.com/topic/91060

BSM's Report: https://epicmafia.com/report/258927

BSM's Speech Code: https://pastebin.com/Z6B0hbJn (Adopted by Admin into censoring words)

https://epicmafia.com/lobby/rules

Should the intent and context of a message be taken into account before handing out a violation?
23
Yes
2
No
1
I'm not sure
PoliticallyCorrect
about 6 years
Let's be civil. Even though I disagree with BSM, he honestly believes that he is doing the right thing.

Also he is willing to engage in debate.

For that I give him credit.
ralphman
about 6 years
uncensor N I G G A R D L Y or unsub
SHERK
about 6 years


bsm in a nutshell

seriously this is what i think of every time i see this sniveling rat pop up on this site
blacksnakemoan
about 6 years

Jeff says

Why are we leaving WHITE people to rule on racial slurs when we have plenty of BLACK people who can give more valid opinions on racism?


Because if we just did what Lucid wanted it would be an instant ban for racist language and there wouldn't be any discussion or exceptions.

The only reason anything is being discussed is because - once again - a couple of white users are suddenly upset they can't talk like their favourite rapper.
GrannyPixel
about 6 years

dyke says

oh my god stopPP

i see im super popular in this zero tolerance rule huh//

to put it as easily as i can, i dont think the f word and dyke have the same level of pain behind them

dyke was a slur that essentially means "manly lesbian" and referred to butches(which i am)
its been widely reclaimed and we have dyke marches, and lots of lesbians ID as dykes, including me, because of the stigma that lesbians are predators

also, did you know that homosexual is still considered a slur? im sure we can all agree it is on a different level than the f slur.

this isn't to say it isn't offensive to some-- i've said over and over i will leave the game if someone asks, and if people want to use my real name then i give them that. i'm not forcing you to put up with my username. if it offends you, tell me to leave your game, and i will.

the only person here who has the right to argue about my username being offensive is grannypixel. she's expressed her feelings before, but you guys didn't really give a [redacted] before this rule came and i could be the One Single Thread that destroyed this Horrible Rule! quit using me as a gotcha please

and yes jeff i go by he/him thank u....


Keep being you hen x
shayneismyname
about 6 years

dyke says

oh my god stopPP

i see im super popular in this zero tolerance rule huh//

to put it as easily as i can, i dont think the f word and dyke have the same level of pain behind them

dyke was a slur that essentially means "manly lesbian" and referred to butches(which i am)
its been widely reclaimed and we have dyke marches, and lots of lesbians ID as dykes, including me, because of the stigma that lesbians are predators

also, did you know that homosexual is still considered a slur? im sure we can all agree it is on a different level than the f slur.

this isn't to say it isn't offensive to some-- i've said over and over i will leave the game if someone asks, and if people want to use my real name then i give them that. i'm not forcing you to put up with my username. if it offends you, tell me to leave your game, and i will.

the only person here who has the right to argue about my username being offensive is grannypixel. she's expressed her feelings before, but you guys didn't really give a [redacted] before this rule came and i could be the One Single Thread that destroyed this Horrible Rule! quit using me as a gotcha please

and yes jeff i go by he/him thank u....


It's still a slur, and if it's offensive to some, it could have to removed because zero tolerance does not mean "some" tolerance. I don't know why people keep arguing semantics. If they change it from a zero tolerance rule, we could have these discussions.
MisterPresident
about 6 years
Yeah but do u know why he wants to be more harsh on racial slurs and not just slurs in general
Mori
about 6 years
It was previously covered by the Hateful Comments rule but Lucid wanted us to be twice as harsh when it comes to racial slurs so that's why there's a new rule.
4rtistic
about 6 years
How dare you offended our magnificent Granny who shouldnt be offended but it's fine when he offended someone else!
HD40307
about 6 years
If I wanted to quote a few lines from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, I would get banned. :(
dzke
about 6 years
oh my god stopPP

i see im super popular in this zero tolerance rule huh//

to put it as easily as i can, i dont think the f word and dyke have the same level of pain behind them

dyke was a slur that essentially means "manly lesbian" and referred to butches(which i am)
its been widely reclaimed and we have dyke marches, and lots of lesbians ID as dykes, including me, because of the stigma that lesbians are predators

also, did you know that homosexual is still considered a slur? im sure we can all agree it is on a different level than the f slur.

this isn't to say it isn't offensive to some-- i've said over and over i will leave the game if someone asks, and if people want to use my real name then i give them that. i'm not forcing you to put up with my username. if it offends you, tell me to leave your game, and i will.

the only person here who has the right to argue about my username being offensive is grannypixel. she's expressed her feelings before, but you guys didn't really give a [redacted] before this rule came and i could be the One Single Thread that destroyed this Horrible Rule! quit using me as a gotcha please

and yes jeff i go by he/him thank u....
MonteCarrlo
about 6 years
Such a nigg@rdly rule.

Nigg@rdly is censored for some reason.
Jeff
about 6 years
You’re one dumb àss bïtch lmao
GrannyPixel
about 6 years

Jeff says

In regards to GrannyPixel’s post:
She’s a lesbian though and allowed to use it. Yes she shouldn’t use it around lesbians who don’t like it out of common courtesy BUT she herself has every right to call herself that name if she pleases. In fact, Dyke Marches are things many thing lesbians take pride in as they march in solidarity together for equality. Her name is fine for herself and any lesbian that doesn’t accept her using it can fück right off.


She shouldn't use it around lesbians? Oh, so any lesbians who don't like the word who happen to visit this site magically see her name as something other than a negative slur?
Jeff
about 6 years
I’m aware Xela was joking but I loved the idea of councils that discuss whether a slur should be viod LOL. Why are we leaving WHITE people to rule on racial slurs when we have plenty of BLACK people who can give more valid opinions on racism? I’m sure Devante and Essa would be much more capable of understanding how slurs affect black people than white anime boys and girls.
deletedabout 6 years
getting a violation for saying n*gga when there is no intent of racism is stupid, the word itself is kind of normalized and not shocking to hear/read. meanwhile, there are people on this website who can be racist as fûck and get away with it cus they didn't use "racial slurs". this zero tolerance bs is just a low effort solution to deal with slurring.
Jeff
about 6 years
Actually I think Dyke might use male pronouns now that I think about it. My apologies. Regardless, they can use it and others can fück off.
Jeff
about 6 years
In regards to GrannyPixel’s post:
She’s a lesbian though and allowed to use it. Yes she shouldn’t use it around lesbians who don’t like it out of common courtesy BUT she herself has every right to call herself that name if she pleases. In fact, Dyke Marches are things many thing lesbians take pride in as they march in solidarity together for equality. Her name is fine for herself and any lesbian that doesn’t accept her using it can fück right off.
deletedabout 6 years
i mean, just don't use slurs. whether you mean them to or not, they affect people negatively. you have to understand that those words have been used alongside entire genocides of groups of people, and they're outdated and informal for that very reason. good intent doesn't make saying them okay. just dont use them and be a good person, i promise it isnt hard

and for people reclaiming them, i think it's okay to but we also have to be aware that other people may be hurt by it and may not agree with reclaiming. so i think if someone asks that person to stop in a game or something, that should probably be respected otherwise it can very quickly turn into a hate speech thing
Jeff
about 6 years
[quote=blahblah]Dyke has had her name for several years now and successive mod teams have agreed she won't have it removed or be punished for having it. Getting reported fifty times a week by idiots is punishment enough.[/quote=blahblah]

[quote=GrannyPixel] What a disgusting comment. Just because one person has "reclaimed" a slur doesn't mean everyone has. Where I come from the word "dyke" is actually very offensive, and I know a lot of lesbians who wouldn't like to see someone using the name so freely. So enough with the "idiots". [/quote=GrannyPixel]
She’s a lesbian though and allowed to use it. Yes she shouldn’t use it around lesbians who don’t like it BUT she herself has every right to call herself that name if she pleases. In fact, Dyke Marches are things many thing lesbians take pride in as they march in solidarity together for equality. Her name is fine for herself and any lesbian that doesn’t accept her using it can fück right off.
Dasein
about 6 years
JM absolutely should not have gotten a vio. The new rules will shrink our small community even further.
GrannyPixel
about 6 years
[quote=shayneismyname]

GrannyPixel says


blacksnakemoan says

Dyke has had her name for several years now and successive mod teams have agreed she won't have it removed or be punished for having it. Getting reported fifty times a week by idiots is punishment enough.

What a disgusting comment. Just because one person has "reclaimed" a slur doesn't mean everyone has. Where I come from the word "dyke" is actually very offensive, and I know a lot of lesbians who wouldn't like to see someone using the name so freely. So enough with the "idiots".


Not even sure if this person is serious, but if you have a "zero tolerance policy" on homophobic slurs, you have to listen to them.


I am serious, I like Dyke but I have to admit it is a pretty shocking thing that they are still allowed to operate under that name. The word Dyke is to lesbians what the "F" word is to homosexuals - but on this site the "F" word has a no-tolerance policy while people are allowed to use the former word as their avatar name. It's pretty wrong.
shayneismyname
about 6 years
[quote=GrannyPixel]

blacksnakemoan says

Dyke has had her name for several years now and successive mod teams have agreed she won't have it removed or be punished for having it. Getting reported fifty times a week by idiots is punishment enough.

What a disgusting comment. Just because one person has "reclaimed" a slur doesn't mean everyone has. Where I come from the word "dyke" is actually very offensive, and I know a lot of lesbians who wouldn't like to see someone using the name so freely. So enough with the "idiots".


Not even sure if this person is serious, but if you have a "zero tolerance policy" on homophobic slurs, you have to listen to them.
GrannyPixel
about 6 years
Also, I voted "yes" in your poll until I saw your disgustingly trying to defend JM123's racist comments - then I quickly answered "no". His comment was offensive as hell, no doubt about it.
GrannyPixel
about 6 years
[quote=blacksnakemoan]Dyke has had her name for several years now and successive mod teams have agreed she won't have it removed or be punished for having it. Getting reported fifty times a week by idiots is punishment enough.

What a disgusting comment. Just because one person has "reclaimed" a slur doesn't mean everyone has. Where I come from the word "dyke" is actually very offensive, and I know a lot of lesbians who wouldn't like to see someone using the name so freely. So enough with the "idiots".