Back to Epicmafia

Report O'Mafia

PoliticallyCorrect
about 6 years

Now as some of you may know we now have a "new" rule that has just been implemented.

Racial Slurs

Malicious use of slurs against players that are based on race and/or ethnicity. We will show absolutely no tolerance towards racist and xenophobic ideals.

Expires in 6 months

1) Warning

2) Site Ban

Now as Giga13 has already noted. Racist remarks are already covered in the current Hateful Comments rule.

Hateful Comments

Any form of severe or excessive hate speech or hateful language based on race, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, mental capabilities, and other personal circumstances.

Meaning the new rule is redundant, and mainly just serves to increase penalties, and virtue signal.

I think the main problem with the rules is not the quantity, but clarity and enforcement.

So to increase clarity I would recommend changing the Hateful Comments rule to this:

Hateful Comments

Using hateful language with the intent to degrade, discriminate against, or humiliate another person.

Since we are all human, everyone is covered by this rule, and equally protected.

People shouldn't be banned only based on the content of their messages.

But instead also take into account the intent and the context of their messages.

Because I can say the same exact words with completely different meaning in different contexts. Like saying "I killed him." when playing a video game, verses saying "I killed him." after being asked if you committed a murder.

Now I have a perfect example of this:

Recently JM123 managed to receive the very first Racial Slurs Vio.

JM123 wrote: >half of the site will get banned my n'igga

But fortunately our hero BSM sprinted to the occasion and reported this heinous offender.

https://epicmafia.com/report/258927

Result: JM123 received Racial Slurs 1st - Warning

So what went wrong?

Lets first look at the context: JM123 was voicing his disagreement with the creation of a controversial policy. https://epicmafia.com/topic/91047?page=3&post_highlight=3131016

Now lets look at the intent: JM123 wished to express his view, that the enforcement of such a policy would result in many players being banned.

Finally lets look at the content: >half of the site will get banned my n'igga

Obviously the controversial word is n'igga, however I would argue that JM123 has not violated the Racial Slurs rules which is defined as: "Malicious use of slurs against players that are based on race"

While some people may consider n'igga to be a slur, JM123 did not use it maliciously against other players, or people to demean them.

In fact it is often used even till this day as a term of endearment between friends.

So the main issue in this occasion is the interpretation and enforcement of the Racial Slurs rule.

The result of this will be a chilling effect on freespeech, as I might be vio'd for simply discussing this topic right here and now.

Even though my intent is not to demean or be racist towards any person, but rather to allow people to joke and speak freely and only be punished when they are truly being hateful.

The letter of the law does not line up with interpretation of it.

Currently as it stands the real definition of Racial Slurs is

Racial Slurs:

Using n'igga or n-word no matter what your intent is.

This I believe is a very poor way to address things as heavy handed censorship doesn't actually protect the vulnerable, but simply stifles conversation and an open exchange of ideas.

TLDR:

- People should only be vio'd based on the intent and context of their messages.

- Bullies should be targeted not simply people who disagree with you.

Jeff: 'People outside of communities can stop virtue signaling their offense for the people within them. It’s a tired and gross practice to be offended for others who are not. It serves the purpose of trying to be holier than thou and is an ugly way to defend your point.'

Volta's Slur Whitelist: https://epicmafia.com/topic/91071?page=2

Check my story, The Peoples Village https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q2yeMDXdG69ngAz3gw_0HWQoXNGPf479EW4BD369alY/edit?usp=sharing

Sources:

Songin New Rule Suggestion: https://epicmafia.com/topic/91047?page=3&post_highlight=3131016

Giga13 Response: https://epicmafia.com/topic/91060

BSM's Report: https://epicmafia.com/report/258927

BSM's Speech Code: https://pastebin.com/Z6B0hbJn (Adopted by Admin into censoring words)

https://epicmafia.com/lobby/rules

Should the intent and context of a message be taken into account before handing out a violation?
23
Yes
2
No
1
I'm not sure
JM123
about 6 years
I don't care enough to write long posts but basically:

1- that new rule is stupid,

2- if the mod team doesnt understand that, they are stupid

3- plus i made like 5 posts using the word so thats already 5 vios aka ban lol so the mod team isn't even enforcing the rule properly so the mod team is EXTRA stupid

i guess the bottom line here is, the mod team is really stupid lol
shayneismyname
about 6 years
I really am unsure how I could make myself clearer. A zero tolerance policy means there is no middle ground. A zero tolerance policy on violence means that if a guy starts punching me, I risk suspension if I hit him back. If you enact a zero tolerance policy on homophobic slurs, you cannot just grandfather someone in who's username is a homophobic slur. That is not what "zero tolerance" means. If there was any leniency or middle ground, they'd have likely chosen a name such as "little tolerance," or perhaps "some tolerance." The phrase "zero tolerance" is completely self-explanatory, so im perplexed that some of you guys are struggling with it.

You are asking for three completely contradictory things:

-Some users should be allowed to do X.
-If users are accused of doing X, we will look into each case and punish at our discretion, depending on the severity.
-There is absolutely 0 tolerance for a user doing X.
shayneismyname
about 6 years
If Dyke can have her username by Dyke, deletes her account, and is not allowed to make a new account because users cant name an account named Dyke, that is not a zero tolerance policy. She should have been forced to change her name when the rule was enacted in the first place. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance. That's been my point this entire time. There is no grandfathering users in. There is no grey area. If there was any leniency it would not be a zero tolerance policy.
shayneismyname
about 6 years

Jeff says

The idea that any user reclaiming a slur specific to them would be breaking a rule is asinine. Zero tolerance just simply doesn’t work. Having to add this caveat of it not being retroactive to justify something that should be perfectly acceptable is pre-implementation proof that this change will be disastrous.


Thank you. Zero tolerance means zero tolerance. There is no such goddamn thing as "zero tolerance except for X Y and Z." That is the entire point of zero tolerance.
deletedabout 6 years
JM's vio is bs lol
blacksnakemoan
about 6 years
Or we could just use the retroactive caveat to avoid explaining to Mr. White-Power-is-the-same-as-Black-Power!!!! what reclamation means

But if you think you can teach him, go ahead. I know no one else will bother.
Jeff
about 6 years
The idea that any user reclaiming a slur specific to them would be breaking a rule is asinine. Zero tolerance just simply doesn’t work. Having to add this caveat of it not being retroactive to justify something that should be perfectly acceptable is pre-implementation proof that this change will be disastrous.
blacksnakemoan
about 6 years
Er, I think it just means the rule won't be retroactive.

She's not breaking the rule by having the account, only by creating it. Creating it occurred a long time ago.
Zhuorb
about 6 years

blacksnakemoan says

Dyke has had her name for several years now and successive mod teams have agreed she won't have it removed or be punished for having it.



then the "zero tolerance policy" stops existing lol
Jeff
about 6 years
SuperNova not allowed.
Jeff
about 6 years
Time to make a registry of all the homos who are allowed to say gay and lesbian slurs.
blacksnakemoan
about 6 years
Dyke has had her name for several years now and successive mod teams have agreed she won't have it removed or be punished for having it. Getting reported fifty times a week by idiots is punishment enough.


PoliticallyCorrect says

BSM what is the difference?
Both are basing their identity on an immutable characteristic in which they had no hand in choosing.


Black power is a movement that focuses on uplifting the culture and community of African Americans in response to racial oppression which treated them as subhuman.

White power is a movement that focuses on promoting whites as superior to other races, not by giving whites any special attributes, but by suggesting that other races are lacking in basic aspects of humanity.

Think of it like a bully and a victim. The bully beats on the victim, and the bully is happy while the victim is miserable.

The victim finds something they're good at, or they enjoy, and starts to celebrate this new passion.

The bully isn't OK with the victim being happy, so they begin to talk about how the victim's new activity isn't as intellectual, or as physically skillful, or as civilised, as the bully's activities.

White power tears down those outside the group.

Black power raises up those within the group.
deletedabout 6 years
wait r homosexual people real
i thought that was only in fanfiction
shayneismyname
about 6 years
I'llbring this example up again, purely bc ive never seen anyone truly have an issue with this: there is a well respected user on the site who's name is "dyke." And we can have a 10 hour conversation about how that word is in the process of being reclaimed and re appropriated, but the fact still stands that that word is still a homophobic slur. There are parts of the US where someone might roll down their window, yell that word out at you, and you will have to worry if they are going to come back with bats. On this site, though, ive never seen a SINGLE person truly irked or upset or whatever, that this user has this name. However, if there was a NO TOLLERANCE POLICY on using homophobic slur, this user could no longer have this name that no one had a problem with, because we have removed any room for grey area.
deletedabout 6 years
What is Lucid's account name, i need to file a report.
shayneismyname
about 6 years
Thats what 0 tolerance if there for: it's to take the decisions from the moderators. When you say "there is 0 tolerance for users refering to users by the d word" (in this case, the d word is dumb,) you open yourself to this:

EM game happens, player X makes a mistake, and player X says "damn, im sorry guys, that was real dumb of me." Well hold on, player X just used a forbidden word to refer to a user (the user being player X,) and under a 0 tolerance policy, you remove any nuance from this. With a 0 tolerance policy, you gotta go "you know what, this is just an opportunity for everyone to see that no one is exempt and something like this is never okay to say." Even if player C, who had nothing to do with it, but just witnessed it, you'd be required to take action because 0 tolerance.

People are pretending that people who are skeptical of this rewording of the rule want to use the N word, but I really think there is the possibility that you are needlessly broadening the ddfinition of things to the point where you will have to overstep.

And that is the problem with the concept of 0 tolerance: it removes the point of moderation. Mods are there to use their judgement. 0 tolerance removes any personal judgement.
PoliticallyCorrect
about 6 years
BSM what is the difference?
Both are basing their identity on an immutable characteristic in which they had no hand in choosing.
shayneismyname
about 6 years
And reminder: zero tolerance means 0 tolerance. If you say "0 tolerance for racial slurs" and someone says "how dare you call me [racial slur]" they must be punished, since they used the slur, or else it is not a 0 tolerance policy. That's the very definition of how zero tolerance policy's work - there is no gray area for anything - if there is a zero tolerance policy for violence, you get punished if you hit someone back as they beat you.
shayneismyname
about 6 years
Who knew zero tolerance policies could be so complicated? Who knew?

https://www.apmreports.org/story/2016/08/25/reforming-school-discipline
http://www.abajournal.com/gallery/zerotolerance/
https://www.aaeteachers.org/index.php/blog/1504-zero-tolerance-policies-and-bullying-in-the-classroom
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-zero-tolerance-policies-hurt-kids
https://listverse.com/2015/10/10/10-ridiculous-instances-of-zero-tolerance-in-schools/
blacksnakemoan
about 6 years

PoliticallyCorrect says

Speaking of BSM's report is it bad for someone to say White Power, but not wrong for someone to say Black Power?


do you not understand the difference
blacksnakemoan
about 6 years
lol https://epicmafia.com/report/259008
Volta
about 6 years

PoliticallyCorrect says

Speaking of BSM's report is it bad for someone to say White Power, but not wrong for someone to say Black Power?

We should follow MLK's example and just say God's Power. : )


not wrong to say black power because it isn't a real thing
PoliticallyCorrect
about 6 years
Speaking of BSM's report is it bad for someone to say White Power, but not wrong for someone to say Black Power?

We should follow MLK's example and just say God's Power. : )
PoliticallyCorrect
about 6 years
Thanks Steelix XD, ya sometimes it's hard for me to catch sarcasm through text.
PoliticallyCorrect
about 6 years
Also the reports are rolling in lol.

Montezuma: https://epicmafia.com/report/259008

BSM tried to report me but failed and got someone else instead lol: https://epicmafia.com/report/259007