if you don't like shounen they you probably won't really enjoy it, but honestly it starts off slow and like krul said it gets really good. if you don't like it after ep 27 or so then you probably won't like it. most people just aren't willing to give it that much of a chance though. it honestly took me forever to get up to into episode 20+, but once i did i binge watched it
tldr part 2 of the posts above (which got deleted x2):
basically japan was suffering after ww2 bombing, boys see iceland as the isolated, untouched beauty japan was, japan still culturally devastated by this crisis, as they were previously v isolationist and historically xenophobic etc.
the european myths are like the westernized version of this defeatism, with a blinding guilt that permeates culturally, though very subtly.
There are more points here to mention, but the general gist of it is that the nationalist undertones infused in the plot have absolutely everything to do with the kind of people in the story and what Japan is likely experiencing right now, to this day, every time they seek to portray art through drawing rather than through live performance. In a way, they have shielded themselves off from the West with anime as one of their cultural contributions in modern times, and I think it really has to do with a perpetual sense of being inferior to the outside world.
Is this belief misplaced? I think, absolutely yes, it is. Anime is incredibly impressive and we see time and again just how amazing Japan's contributions to the world have been and can be. But, there is some vague sense of defeatism that clings like an endless shadow to their society. Japan has a society that was once prominent and indefatigable in isolation on its own islands, with its own people, albeit with some borrowed traditions and innovations from China and later the Imperialistic West. It was a very strong, militaristic culture that was suddenly annihilated with one resounding explosion. And I think that explosion is still resonating in their souls, terrorizing them in some indescribable way, which Watanabe is trying to delicately prod at with this show.
EDIT: I do want to add that I'm certainly no expert on Japanese history, but I do think my argument still stands, in that you can feel the effects of this cultural, and really spiritual, crisis in countless anime that have been made, including some of the best.
Excellent points, and I agree that Five is certainly up for debate in terms of relevance. She had her purpose as the opposing love interest, I suppose. If you believe she was infatuated with Nine, to the point of embracing her role as his rival, then him being her target for emotionally-charged revenge on the world makes some sense. It's still a little flimsy, given that the Americans seem way too willing to let her do what she wants (especially with the airport fiasco).
But bringing up the nationalist motif, I think there is some reason why Iceland was chosen. Throughout the story, we are presented with glaring undertones of Japan as the historical victim of modern society. Though thriving in many important respects, Japan emerges in the story as having developed a serious case of wounded pride. In particular, the head of the group has more explicit motives that enunciate these beliefs, and they serve as his lifelong justification for what he has done/planned to do.
I don't think it's far-fetched to say that Watanabe is trying to bring up a very sensitive issue here that Japanese culture hints at often but largely dismisses, because publicly discussing it is the equivalent of bringing up a neighborhood crime: it brings too much shame to the people involved. Clearly, though, there is some sense of shame and disappointment, sullied pride, etc. so forth that harkens back to the bombing of Japan by the US. Hence, we have Shibazaki hailing from Hiroshima and mentioning early on about his surreal experience growing up there. Not only that, we have blatant use of bad English throughout the show, and the Americans running all over the place like its their playground (also a bit forced thematically, but it drives the point home in retrospect).
Excellent points, and I agree that Five is certainly up for debate in terms of relevance. She had her purpose as the opposing love interest, I suppose. If you believe she was infatuated with Nine, to the point of embracing her role as his rival, then him being her target for emotionally-charged revenge on the world makes some sense. It's still a little flimsy, given that the Americans seem way too willing to let her do what she wants (especially with the airport fiasco).
But bringing up the nationalist motif, I think there is some reason why Iceland was chosen. Throughout the story, we are presented with glaring undertones of Japan as the historical victim of modern society. Though thriving in many important respects, Japan emerges in the story as having developed a serious case of wounded pride. In particular, the head of the group has more explicit motives that enunciate these beliefs, and they serve as his lifelong justification for what he has done/planned to do.
I don't think it's far-fetched to say that Watanabe is trying to bring up a very sensitive issue here that Japanese culture hints at often but largely dismisses, because publicly discussing it is the equivalent of bringing up a neighborhood crime: it brings too much shame to the people involved. Clearly, though, there is some sense of shame and disappointment, sullied pride, etc. so forth that harkens back to the bombing of Japan by the US. Hence, we have Shibazaki hailing from Hiroshima and mentioning early on about his surreal experience growing up there. Not only that, we have blatant use of bad English throughout the show, and the Americans running all over the place like its their playground (also a bit forced thematically, but it drives the point home in retrospect).
Beautiful words right here (and your previous post too!). I definitely agree with you--Lisa was an excellent character and she had a role to play. I do enjoy that there was a certain scale of "humanity," if you will, to the adolescent characters. On one end we have Five, whose reckless and arguably monstrous actions were for personal gain/revenge(?); move to Nine, whose actions were ; Twelve shares Nine's wishes, but also finds stability in the normalcy of Lisa--he wants a (girl?)friend, he wants to be a teenager and live like he was supposed to before happened, he even suggests to Nine that they stop what they're doing; and then we have Lisa, who is the picture of status quo (to an extent) but wants the freedom (heck, they're represented visually by birds of all things more than once) that the boys have and represent.
Honestly yeah Five just kind of throws things for a loop. The balance would be so much more potent if it were just those three. Still, she was interesting to watch, that cringeworthy engrish aside (hence why the dub is pretty nice). She was the antagonist, I guess, though I thought Shibazaki served that role beautifully by himself.
What are your thoughts on the theme of Iceland? I couldn't wrap my head around it. I'm sure there had to be symbolic significance, it showed up so much. The latin myth themes were nice and well-placed, and while I like Icelandic music a ton, I couldn't figure out the role the country played.
deletedalmost 9 years
I watched an anime for the first time in a long time
It was pretty good despite low funding for animation and stuff
Aku no Hana
I also finished by reading the manga, since it only gets through a little less than half the story in the anime. Check it out if you want. It's pretty laid back most of the time. For an anime like that, though, there are some intense parts, but then it calms right down again.
Have been with the flu for the past week so i've been doing some catching up on a few things. Even finished Noragami Aragoto dub last night. Dayum what a ride that was.
There is a very keen observation in that entire process on the nature of women in Japan, women in general, and the personality of victimization in modern society. As we isolate ourselves and become more individualized in our beliefs, behaviors, and attitudes, somehow we have become homogenized in this disappointment with today's world. We yearn for deeper connections, but we also inherently expel them in an automatic, isolationist fashion, as if they might harm the fragile bond with ourselves we have formed in solitude.
To me, this social enigma is precisely the conundrum that the boys seek to expose, in that it does indeed relate to them, albeit in a more physical and traumatizing sense. The beauty in the night sky, in the end, I believe signifies a sense of awe in the unity of our world. Only through unified experiences can we bring each other together. Maybe it's a little forced in the overall presentation, but the message is still there: wake up, and notice that we're all feeling, seeing, experiencing the same things.
Yes, the music especially during those scenes was simply phenomenal. The ferris wheel scene had me tearing up a bit as well. It was very polished in terms of artistic design.
As for Lisa - and this is the real reason for my reply - I think the aim was to create a character that reflected a certain level of dissonance with modern society. She never really fit in, but she also conformed to traditional Japanese gender roles. This is why we have that moment where she's in utter bliss riding on the motorcycle early on. She has a connection to the freedom that she feels is innately justified and natural; that even though they are terrorists and clearly dangerous, they are the bad guys any girl would flock to.
Then, we have Lisa's repeated ignorance or inability to act, if you will. Each time she is asked to step up and master the freedom the boys imbue in her, she cannot coherently make her way, ultimately becoming a hindrance to their schemes. Yet, there is humanity in all this: we see a girl who yearns for a new world intuitively but cannot truly possess it, being trapped and stricken by the societal notions impressed upon her at every turn of reality. She is a woman, she is a girl; she is only an innocent high school student. How can she possibly rise to the challenge?
And so I think Lisa is an incredibly interesting character, precisely because she lets us down in the way that she does. We know she is supposed to do something; exactly what that is remains uncertain, even to her. However, when the opportunity finally arrives to act, she cannot help but become the victim.
Ah man I went back in the pages looking for something but I saw this and had to comment. ZNT is one of my favorite animes purely for the aesthetic of it. For some reason, the music coupled with the gorgeous animation and the raw emotion in some scenes really resonated (pfft) with me. Despite its glaring plotholes and oddities I truly think it's a work of art.
I'm surprised people don't like Five; I agree for the most part, but like, I think most people when the anime was still coming out had a problem with Lisa (who I liked a lot) for being so unhelpful. But like come on. She was the only normal one out of all of them lmao of course she'd be a little less inclined to act. I do feel as though the anime still could have been fine with out her, but I liked that she was a moral anchor for Nine and Twelve and provided some well-placed comic relief-esque scenes. Kids need to be kids; can't be all srs all the time.
Ahh but that motorcycle scene. That's gonna stick with me. I'm pretty sure it made me get a little teary eyed (as did that ferris wheel scene with the song VON, and every time I hear the song Birden, aka that gorgeous track during THAT scene in episode 11) for whatever reason. Watanabe has a knack for eliciting emotion through art and characters so much that story just kind of takes a back seat for me, when it comes to ZNT.
