Epicmafia

Training Lobby Change Proposals

over 10 years

Hi training lobby. I haven’t properly introduced myself here but you’ll know TheBrontosaurus well as your lobby owner. One of the things we want to improve on EpicMafia considerably is the harmony and synergy of other lobbies, and give players old and new many different ventures on the site.

One of the stumbling blocks that we have is finding a way to keep training running the way it is, whilst also not making it exploited by point farming with new users who wish to play the game.

I’ve made a thread in competitive which I hope you take time to look at too which has more ideas that can make their way to this lobby, it can be found here.

https://epicmafia.com/topic/63209

So what are the ideas that we have for training?

1) Lobby rename

One issue that’s easy to notice with training is that it has lost its meaning for most of the players in this lobby. We don’t wish to splinter another lobby for new players only, but would like to rename it to something more appropriate. At the moment the leading name is Casual, but I realize that there is an online stigma behind this. If you can think of better names, please let us know.

2) 10K points cap

One of the problems with training is users using it to farm up points. There’s been a lot of aggressive suggestions on how to fix this, one method we had very long ago was forcing people to join comp lobby once they reached a certain threshold. We do not want that to happen again, but we also do not want point farming by playing with newer users.

What does this mean if implemented? It means that once you reach 10000 points in Training/New name pending, you won’t earn more points for future wins you have. We think this is a generous amount to deter point-farming, but you are still fully free to play in the lobby unrestricted if you wish. Stats and other achievements will still be viable and tracked.

3) Greater input with moderators

One bias we notice is how most new moderators are picked from competitive. We realize that most mods have been picked from the comp lobby in the past, however we certainly want to embrace new variation when we look for new moderators in the certain future. If you’re ever interested in being one, feel free to PM an application for it to be reviewed.

Finishing notes

I realize this might look like a forced attempt to boost competitive player numbers. Partially, it is, but I hope you check out the comp thread too if you would like to see more information.There are news ideas in that thread that will be added to training too. Please give any feedback you have, thanks again.

TheVigil

over 10 years

thebrontosaurus says

Yeah, either way it wouldn't really matter so long as lucid fixed things on his end (point requirements, stickies, auto-login lobbies, etc.)

This is all speculation though, nothing like this may happen.

Lucid being a one man team. If these changes did happen would they be gradual or one of those things were you hold your cards and then BOOM.

thebrontosaurus

over 10 years

Yeah, either way it wouldn't really matter so long as lucid fixed things on his end (point requirements, stickies, auto-login lobbies, etc.)

This is all speculation though, nothing like this may happen.

TheVigil

over 10 years

thebrontosaurus says

@TheVigil, that's why it makes more sense in some way to delist Training and rename Comp main and have it become the default lobby.

@Jill; it wouldn't get deleted, it would just be listed like all the custom lobbies and lose its sticky. All the past comp round data would be different though, which sort of sucks but it's a minor aesthetic change I guess.

Yes Comp's infrastructure is another pro as it is already used to competitive play. Now that i think about this it does make a lot more sense.

thebrontosaurus

over 10 years

@TheVigil, that's why it makes more sense in some way to delist Training and rename Comp main and have it become the default lobby.

@Jill; it wouldn't get deleted, it would just be listed like all the custom lobbies and lose its sticky. All the past comp round data would be different though, which sort of sucks but it's a minor aesthetic change I guess.

Jill

over 10 years

remove pointcap, move everyone to comp, rename comp???

bc wouldn't deleting comp lobby mean deleting past round history

TheVigil

over 10 years

thebrontosaurus says

reposting from other thread because this thread brings this up quite a bit as well

I also want to point out that the mod and mentor forums are both attached to the Comp forums, which is one of the reasons why we've been trying to get more Training people to move over. Comp has a better infrastructure set up, Training has more people.

The infrastructure is easier to fix imo.

@Smorl, I agree. I don't want to restrict anyone, I just want to encourage people to try out different things.

I agree it is annoying every time i want to get to the mentoring forum i have to go through all that.

thebrontosaurus

over 10 years

reposting from other thread because this thread brings this up quite a bit as well

I also want to point out that the mod and mentor forums are both attached to the Comp forums, which is one of the reasons why we've been trying to get more Training people to move over. Comp has a better infrastructure set up, Training has more people.

The infrastructure is easier to fix imo.

@Smorl, I agree. I don't want to restrict anyone, I just want to encourage people to try out different things. Considering from my understanding that what's become popular in Training never became popular until people started getting too comfortable there.

I also will agree with Jupiter in that harassment/HC cases come up way more in Training than in Comp, and that I've seen worse rage in training games than in Comp recently.

deletedover 10 years

Yup. I look forward to seeing our Competitive Lobby brothers rejoin with their Training counterparts. :) It will end this division once and for all. It's kind of like tearing down the Berlin Wall. (Dramatic, I know)

Jill

over 10 years

the merge would probably benefit both lobbies equally though and if anything, it affects comp players way more than training so there's no real reason for training players to be against this change

TheVigil

over 10 years

The way there talking that's what is happening. It makes the most sense as i said. No sense in moving an army when you can move a squad if you know what i mean.

TheVigil

over 10 years

"Hello Lucid i was wondering can we delete Comp lobby and make a huge lobby for all players" .............. "No"

deletedover 10 years

@TheVigil

I'm totally for the deletion of comp. It just seemed to me it wasn't going to happen, but if it is I'm all for it. It will join the communities together.

deletedover 10 years

@thebrontosaurus That'll be interesting to hear what he replies. I guess I should have clarified in saying I'm not against people trying out competitive lobby, but I don't think training should be limited/changed to make players experiment. Instead the other lobbies should have some sort of appeal that draws new players to them. That's how it should be done. But I fear that messing with training lobby will just make it less fun for the community already there.

TheVigil

over 10 years

Smorlicious says

Maybe that's true. But the way to do it isn't change training lobby for the benefit of competition. Trying to return to the old system where training is a stepping stone to competitive is a bad idea as most players in training aren't interested in competitive games one way or another.

The transition to competitive needs to be voluntary. The way to appeal to training players and make them transition is to give them something to make them WANT to join competitive. But on it's own, training has a strong community, so it shouldn't be changed for the sake of a smaller lobby.

1. Competitive is moving here as it will be deleted and training has the bigger player base.

2. Players can still play there setups. Only now there will be a competition and gold hearts at the same time

It will work just like the training competition only more long term.

Or at least that would make the most sense.

thebrontosaurus

over 10 years

Lots of good points being brought up in this thread, and I'm thrilled so many training players are coming forward about it and their thoughts.

Jill is pretty much on point though with her last point. There is so much more to mafia and the site than what's offered in Training, and our goal is to give people more reason to explore more. I agree that the mods tend to favor Comp Lobby, but that's because the most experienced players (generally) hang out there and become mods because of their experiences in higher level play and different situations. If there was one lobby, or if more players played there, it wouldn't feel like such a stark difference.

Steven's idea probably makes the most sense.

I'm going to approach lucid pretty soon with a summation of what's been discussed and see what he says.

deletedover 10 years

Maybe that's true. But the way to do it isn't change training lobby for the benefit of competition. Trying to return to the old system where training is a stepping stone to competitive is a bad idea as most players in training aren't interested in competitive games one way or another.

The transition to competitive needs to be voluntary. The way to appeal to training players and make them transition is to give them something to make them WANT to join competitive. But on it's own, training has a strong community, so it shouldn't be changed for the sake of a smaller lobby.

Jill

over 10 years

no one's forcing anyone to do anything.

it's pretty clear that a lot of people are interested in joining rounds based on the reception of the training competition, but now that's gone so. it's just making some myths clear about comp lobby and its players that might have discouraged people who wanna play but don't bc of said things and showing that both lobbies really aren't as drastically different as you'd think

deletedover 10 years

The REAL question is, WHY ARE WE FORCING TRAINING PLAYERS TO PLAY COMP, IF. THEY. DON'T. WANT. TO.

The whole idea of "work your way up to competition level," is based around the idea that assumes players who join EpicMafia are playing on it so they can play competitively.

THIS. IS. FALSE.

EpicMafia, from it's basic level as a party card game, IS A CASUAL GAME. That's the reason why *I* joined. The whole "competitive" aspect of the game is just a feature EpicMafia added for more serious players. It is an important aspect of the site, but it is not the ONLY aspect of the site.

The idea that people work THEIR way up may have been true at one point. But now that the lobbies have split, two communities have formed. Training is no longer simply the "learning" stage of Epicmafia; it has become it's main lobby.

Point is: Competitive Lobby, you've suggested Training change to help benefit you. And most of us had said no. So now it's time to find another way to solve your problems.

Trepur349

over 10 years

Jupiter says

Also, the larger training playerbase is because players start out in Training, and attributing it to anything else is foolish.

Yeah, no. I've tried both sandbox and comp, like I'm sure most people who stay in training despite being on this site for more than a year.

I didn't like sandbox or comp as much as training, which is why I moved back. I'm sure most of the people fighting in defence of training here have tried the other lobbies, and like me, didn't find them as enjoyable.

Vigoroth

over 10 years

Also someone should really make a delete comp mega thread because I can't tell when people are getting upset at the point cap idea or the deleting comp idea here

Vigoroth

over 10 years

Jupiter says

Vigoroth says

Weren't you the person that created DLYV?

That was IHeartLamp.

Also, the larger training playerbase is because players start out in Training, and attributing it to anything else is foolish.

Oh, must have gotten it mixed up because they both start with H

Jupiter

over 10 years

Vigoroth says

Weren't you the person that created DLYV?

That was IHeartLamp.

Also, the larger training playerbase is because players start out in Training, and attributing it to anything else is foolish.

Ash0wns

over 10 years

No, I've done nothing special via comp lobby, or even training lobby, or even sandbox lobby, Games Lobby I've given out like 30 game ideas to lucid, but no, I'm a vivor lobby host, thats what I do for this website, I helped make the vivor comp that they just ended (bad idea imo) (it killed the lobby fast),

btw, may i ask why the survivor lobby doesn't get cool threads like this? I mean, I know its a custom lobby, but its the most popular custom lobby, and the community is more welcoming than I'd say all the lobbies aside from training. The only downside is the 3-8 hour long games. which, honestly for a lot of us, isn't a big deal lol. (Useless vivor pitch..)

Kristy

over 10 years

This is the most frustrating thread I've ever read.

The problem is not the training lobby, it's the COMP lobby, and we shouldn't be punished for it.

The goal of this website may have once been 'get everyone to comp level and into comp' but the 5x player stats of training proves that model didn't pan out.

WE DON'T WANT TO PLAY IN COMP for a million reasons already listed.

The setups are too complicated and NOT FUN. There's a large social aspect to the "overly simplified" games we play. Comp fulfills no purpose for us when we can't get on 4 hours a day every day to play out each and every comp heart. Some of us, like myself, work full time and have a life outside of the internet (okay maybe not, but I do work fulltime).

We don't want to be in the "training" lobby either. Keep your training lobby for your intended purpose (it will fail) as long as you give us a lobby where we can play ranked without noobs. We don't want to teach and train.

Gaining points and achievements is fun and important to us. I would even be down with a mini-competition in our lobby, of a fun set-up (FP, Hookers And Guns) where you only get say.... 25 hearts in total to use over a 10 day period etc. Max 5 a day, but they don't expire if you don't use them in case there's a day or two you can't get on the computer!

I don't know what else to suggest. But. I feel like you're punishing us because we've turned the training lobby into something it isn't supposed to be...

We've instead turned it into something that is fun that we enjoy.

Vigoroth

over 10 years

Weren't you the person that created DLYV? I think you're exaggerating a bit. At the very least that's mostly all I know about you if I'm right about even that