Epicmafia

over 7 years

Are you really going to try to argue in circles again, ignoring the progress we have made in this discussion?

over 7 years

Priori says

cub says

i hope you know i'm baiting you to contradict yourself with this lyncher example of yours because you're using the exact same logic that says diabolist shouldn't be able to pick mafia

Do not pretend like those two examples are equal, different parties are balanced at different levels.

but you're so dishonest you're comparing mafia roles to eachother instead of to town so you can't make this point

cub

over 7 years

also prosecutor is easily like you said stupidly overpowered so wow what a fine example of why diabolist isn't overpowered: comparing it to a role you admitted is totally overpowered

you're not getting anywhere here

Priori

over 7 years

cub says

i hope you know i'm baiting you to contradict yourself with this lyncher example of yours because you're using the exact same logic that says diabolist shouldn't be able to pick mafia

Do not pretend like those two examples are equal, different parties are balanced at different levels.

cub

over 7 years

Priori says

Diabolist on mafia in a lylo scenario is still not as powerful as Prosecutor in the same scenario.

actually, it is, and here's why

1. diabolist gets to kill people every day leading up to it, prosecutor doesn't. you can't compare these two roles and leave out this fact without being totally disingenuous
2. diabolist actually KILLS someone (game end without a save), prosecutor creates a nl (this, unlike the diabolist path, can lead to meteor or town killing mafia)

cub

over 7 years

i hope you know i'm baiting you to contradict yourself with this lyncher example of yours because you're using the exact same logic that says diabolist shouldn't be able to pick mafia

Priori

over 7 years

Diabolist on mafia in a lylo scenario is still not as powerful as Prosecutor in the same scenario.

cub

over 7 years

you mean unless that lyncher dies first?

Priori

over 7 years

Do you really not understand what I am saying. If a lyncher target is mafia it is impossible for town to win unless that mafia somehow dies at night.

If a lyncher target is on town or non-hostile 3rd it is still possible for all the sides to have a way to win.

cub

over 7 years

you should change your name to posteriori because you come second here

cub

over 7 years

Priori says

Lyncher cannot be on mafia because it can create scenarios where it is impossible for one side to win.

you mean like... if lyncher wins?

cub

over 7 years

Priori says

Is asserting that it is in the top 5 dishonest. We have not agreed upon its position I was making a hypothetical statement just as you were.

you took "top 5" and jumped to the lowest

whether you're thinking about these cheap sophist tricks or not you're swimming in them

Priori

over 7 years

XFire1994 says

Line is pretty clear tbh, if a role has the ability to make town lose when they are working towards their win condition it is too strong. That is why Lyncher can't have a mafia as a target.

Lyncher cannot be on mafia because it can create scenarios where it is impossible for one side to win. Diabolist cannot do that anymore, which is why it was changed in the first place.

cub

over 7 years

xfire refuted your whole false premise of "you can't fix one thing if another thing is broken" pretty succinctly

if a mafia role punishes town for playing to their win condition, it is a bad role

Priori

over 7 years

cub says

Priori says

If diabolist is the 5th strongest mafia role, then we must ask ourselves if the 4th strongest mafia role is too strong.

If you want to balance a game, all overpowered roles must be brought down to acceptable levels.

So the question is: Where is the line between too strong and strong?

>in the top 5
>asserts it's the 5th

you're wholly intellectually dishonest aren't you

Is asserting that it is in the top 5 dishonest. We have not agreed upon its position I was making a hypothetical statement just as you were.

Priori

over 7 years

The context of that comment was you trying to argue that the relative power of other roles was irrelevant. I was pointing out why it was not. Do not try to take my comment out of context.

XFire

over 7 years

Priori says

cub says

aside from that not being how the word must works (you're dishonestly asserting that to claim one thing another totally separate thing must be true),

I am sorry for asserting that a logical conclusion follows a logical premise, my mistake.

If we are talking strictly about balance here:

If diabolist is the 5th strongest mafia role, then we must ask ourselves if the 4th strongest mafia role is too strong.

If you want to balance a game, all overpowered roles must be brought down to acceptable levels.

So the question is: Where is the line between too strong and strong?

Line is pretty clear tbh, if a role has the ability to make town lose when they are working towards their win condition it is too strong. That is why Lyncher can't have a mafia as a target.

cub

over 7 years

Priori says

If diabolist is the 5th strongest mafia role, then we must ask ourselves if the 4th strongest mafia role is too strong.

If you want to balance a game, all overpowered roles must be brought down to acceptable levels.

So the question is: Where is the line between too strong and strong?

>in the top 5
>asserts it's the 5th

you're wholly intellectually dishonest aren't you

just answer the question and if you can't answer the question stop adding nothing to the discussion

cub

over 7 years

your assertion was that if diabolist is overpowered, you must concede that there are roles more overpowered than diabolist

no, that isn't the exact wording you used, that's the logical conclusion of your statement (to concede that THE ROLES STRONGER THAN necessitates that there ARE roles stronger than)

diabolist can be overpowered without other roles being more overpowered, those two things aren't logically dependent

try again before talking to me about logic I do this daily

deletedover 7 years

stop bullying diabolist

Priori

over 7 years

cub says

aside from that not being how the word must works (you're dishonestly asserting that to claim one thing another totally separate thing must be true),

I am sorry for asserting that a logical conclusion follows a logical premise, my mistake.

If we are talking strictly about balance here:

If diabolist is the 5th strongest mafia role, then we must ask ourselves if the 4th strongest mafia role is too strong.

If you want to balance a game, all overpowered roles must be brought down to acceptable levels.

So the question is: Where is the line between too strong and strong?

cub

over 7 years

then before replying answer my question

cub

over 7 years

aside from that not being how the word must works (you're dishonestly asserting that to claim one thing another totally separate thing must be true), let's pretend diabolist isn't the most overpowered mafia role. let's pretend it's in the top 5. what's changed about the fact that diabolist is overpowered?

take a few minutes to think about it first

Priori

over 7 years

Balance is relative. Nothing can be overpowered or underpowered without being compared to something else. If you claim diabolist is overpowered you must concede that the roles stronger than it are even more overpowered.

cub

over 7 years

cub says

"don't fix this role that you can EASILY fix because there are other roles that are stupidly overpowered, all or nothing keep them all broken!"

because "other things exist" isn't a reason

diabolist is the worst