i know im late because i never play with this role but i just did and town found mafia on lylo and when i went to vote mafia (it was lylo!!) i died and mafia won like seriously?! this is the absolute WORST why can it pick mafia that's so unbalanced
1. Again, it doesn't work on lylo because if the town was already going to lynch a town, then all it does is end the game sooner. It doesn't matter if they die on the spot; mafia won whether it kills a townie or not
.2. Yes I agree, that's why I proposed a different nerf or simply not including it at all
3. Baiting town would not only result in your death but also clearing a town, as I said
4. How do you hide what your target votes for? I didn't hear about this
Yes, para is near useless. I do not like it. You are wrong about don, however, since they can claim gov and save thirds.
you're also arguing under a premise (town never not only mls, but doesn't even vote wrong) that would render roles like don and paralyzer utterly useless when you know well that's not the case and don is probably one of the most strategic mafia roles there is
1. Diabolist can't push for the vote target to be lynched, or else everyone will hop off the bw when the vote kills his target and just get the Diabolist instead. Doesn't even work on lylo, since if the person that hammers votes the townie, they lost anyways, kill or no kill.
2. While this is sandbox and people fk around, if you are playing perfectly, you should never vote until everyone is ready. That means unless something happens (like a gun being shot while people are voting), town only votes once each, making it hard to land a kill.
3. If, by some stroke of luck, the Diabolist picks correctly, the person that the target voted is cleared and stops what would have otherwise been an ml (assuming point 2) which yields a net 0 kills. It is actually worse than just a net 0 kills, however, since it means that town can vote for someone else, too.
The more I think about this the more I find myself thinking that there is less of a balance problem with diabolist than there is a fun factor problem: as xfire put it, being punished for pursuing your win con is not enjoyable (especially when it is out of the blue, like cg)
I think that the problem is also inherent to diabolist; without the power to be on mafia votes, the role is just useless. Nerfing diabolist that way just shifts the bad experience from the town to the diabolist.
How would this be corrected? Remove diabolist from the setup? Nerf it? Or should nothing happen anyways?
It may be different from the 12ish hours long discussion happened here but it is not really far from the point the thread was making in the first place
It sucks to lose in lylo by voting confirmed maf bc of Diab, no roles should set a precedent where you should avoid playing towards your wincon and start hunting a role instead, and unlike Mastermind and Autocrat it is possible to fix Diabolist by making it so it can't choose maf partners
Sign here if you've been hurt before by Diabolist :/
The is an entirely different discussion that focuses on issues other than balance. I am not saying it is invalid, but it is a lot more subjective of a topic
It is not a simple yes or no question because once again, asking if someone is too strong relies on balance, which cannot be examined without comparison
no, I don't think I can repeat myself any more. if you can't answer, you can't add anything to this discussion. balance isn't about all mafia roles being equal, it's about town and mafia being on a level playing field. if mafia can kill town for voting mafia, and voting mafia is all town can possibly do to win, is that balanced? yes, no, or another play of the broken record
What are you trying to argue here? I am solely comparing mafia roles to other mafia roles. I am not trying to compare a mafia role to a 3rd party or town role.
