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Ethic Debate

deletedover 7 years

Is abortion or harassment worse than the other one?

Which is worse?
11
Harassment
4
Murder
over 7 years

bulla says

it is still, however, a sentient being, so causing pain to it wrong, just as stamping on bugs and kicking dogs is wrong.


bugs actually can't feel pain
over 7 years

bulla says

newborn child does not possess rationality, self awareness, is not capable of moral action or thought and has had no life experience. it's a homo sapien, the same species, but it's not truly a "human being". it is still, however, a sentient being, so causing pain to it wrong, just as stamping on bugs and kicking dogs is wrong. do you comprehend now? perhaps you need to indulge in the revolutionary process of "thinking"


is it moral to put down perfectly healthy cats just cause

painlessly of course, we wouldn't want to be savages
over 7 years

bulla says

do all babies have the right to live regardless of situation or circumstance?


see this is how you do shock humor, i genuinely can't tell if i'm really being asked whether killing babies is wrong
over 7 years

SnackBandit says

what other edgy things can i say for shock humor


people like you killed shock humor by being so terrible at it
deletedover 7 years
do all babies have the right to live regardless of situation or circumstance?
over 7 years

bulla says


cub says

it also means we can torture animals because most aren't self-aware


senseless torture against a sentient being is barbaric, but if i told you that administering 100 monkeys with parkinson's disease could help 10,000 human beings, i believe you'd be hard-pressed to tell me this is wrong.


no i wouldn't, because i paid attention in history class. the holocaust spurned unbelievable medical advancements that have helped or will eventually help and even save more people than were killed in the process. i don't believe in progress by any means, because progress by any means includes progress by regress. when you make life worse to make life better, did you not fail from the start?

also you used self-awareness as a stipulation, not sentience
over 7 years

bulla says


thelastchromosome says


bulla says

actually psychological damage against a rational moral agent is undoubtedly worse than killing a clump of cells that isn't even aware of its own existence


how old does a human have to be for ending their life to be immoral?


the killing would only be immoral if it caused pain to the foetus. the cutoff date for that is usually considered to be at the 20 week mark, but it's hard to answer generally.

that being said, there are some very tangible arguments for infanticide, and i'd probably stretch it to a few weeks after birth -- but only contingent on a painless death.


someone with a gun can grant you a painless death regardless of age but I think you as a living being whose instinct is survival would rather that decision not be made for you

and before you make no true scotsman out of babies, they cry for a reason. life comes into this world with an instinct to survive and babies cry to be alert their parents of perceived danger; it's not just some pointless nuisance we all hate, it's a meaningful nuisance we all hate


bulla says


cub says

let's be real, are you actually aware of your existence?


yes.


i said let's be real
existence is an abstract concept, you can be aware of the concept but not of the thing the concept describes ie existence itself please keep up
over 7 years
"It's embarrassing to think abortion is beneficial for the entirety of the human race"
deletedover 7 years
ya i forgot the negro in the early 1900s was very well educated and not impoverished excuse me for just not understanding history!


the only thing that's embarrassing here is that grown people think that it's acceptable to kill a living human being because of either
1. you're poor
2. you don't deem the life to be worthy or of value
3. its muh body muh choice muh freedom
deletedover 7 years
poverty stricken means poverty stricken.

not that i even agree with her severely negative eugenics views, but you're projecting your own racism on someone who's clearly not. this is becoming increasingly embarrassing for you, and in your classic fashion you're going to 9/11 the thread in a trolling frenzy because you're too dumb to actually have a civil discussion.
deletedover 7 years
early """"feminism"""" has always had racist anti-black undertones, specifically with the suffragettes
deletedover 7 years

bulla says


CoryInConstantinople says


bulla says

"Sanger's work with minorities earned praise from Martin Luther King, Jr., in his 1966 acceptance speech for the Margaret Sanger award.[81]"

"Sanger’s view put her at odds with leading American eugenicists, such as Charles Davenport who took a racist view of inherited traits. She continually rejected their approach.[117]"

"Consequently, she rejected race and ethnicity as determining factors.[115] "


“We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members,” she wrote.


yes, as in we do not want people to think we are trying to exterminate the black race, i.e the complete opposite to what you are fraudulently accusing her of.


As an advocate of Birth Control, I wish to take advantage of the present opportunity to point out that the unbalance between the birth rate of the "unfit" and the "fit", admittedly the greatest present menace to civilization, can never be rectified by the inauguration of a cradle competition between these two classes. In this matter, the example of the inferior classes, the fertility of the feeble-minded, the mentally defective, the poverty-stricken classes, should not be held up for emulation to the mentally and physically fit though less fertile parents of the educated and well-to-do classes. On the contrary, the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective.

wow,,,,,i wonder who's,,,,,,((((poverty stricken))))) and ((((((feeble minded)))))
deletedover 7 years

CoryInConstantinople says


bulla says

"Sanger's work with minorities earned praise from Martin Luther King, Jr., in his 1966 acceptance speech for the Margaret Sanger award.[81]"

"Sanger’s view put her at odds with leading American eugenicists, such as Charles Davenport who took a racist view of inherited traits. She continually rejected their approach.[117]"

"Consequently, she rejected race and ethnicity as determining factors.[115] "


“We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members,” she wrote.


yes, as in we do not want people to think we are trying to exterminate the black race, i.e the complete opposite to what you are fraudulently accusing her of.
deletedover 7 years

CoryInConstantinople says




requoting for next page
deletedover 7 years

illuminati says

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108433/Doctors-right-kill-unwanted-disabled-babies-birth-real-person-claims-Oxford-academic.html


'If a baby, because of it's physical disabilities, is seen as being "incompatible with life" then we need to let life and death take its course. Becoming agents of death fundamentally changes doctor's role as healer and physician, and it also has massive repercussions on society's conscience shifting what is understood to be morally and socially unacceptable to become acceptable.

Of course motherhood is inconvenient, physically, emotionally, psychologically, financially - but this inconvenience is not allowed to become acceptable grounds for abandoning one's child.

'If a child or an adult has a life-changing accident or illness, do we suggest we'll put them down because their goals and dreams now have to change?

'My brother, Alastair, has great and huge goals and he goes after them with great courage. His Downs Syndrome does not stand in the way.

'They are very different dreams and goals to my own but no less valuable or of contribution to society. At what level would Dr Minerva assign somebody's meaning and value to be worth a life?
deletedover 7 years
over 7 years
deletedover 7 years
and REMINDER the person at question did not abort her child because it's disabled, she did it because she literally just "didn't want it"

there's no word for that other than pure evil.
deletedover 7 years

illuminati says


CoryInConstantinople says

LOL
evolution doesn't include "insane fking mother who wants to KILL her own child"


Yeah OK mother-of-seven-severly-disabled-babies. You're the pinnacle of social progression.


i'd rather be mother of seven severely disabled babies than mother of 7 dead babies (at my own hands)

it takes a sick fking psychopath to literally condone the murder of innocent beings because they can't "contribute" to society in the way you deem they should contribute--but i bet damn well you're a proponent of welfare and people that are on disability

u make me sick u genocidal freak
deletedover 7 years

bulla says

"Sanger's work with minorities earned praise from Martin Luther King, Jr., in his 1966 acceptance speech for the Margaret Sanger award.[81]"

"Sanger’s view put her at odds with leading American eugenicists, such as Charles Davenport who took a racist view of inherited traits. She continually rejected their approach.[117]"

"Consequently, she rejected race and ethnicity as determining factors.[115] "


“We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members,” she wrote.
deletedover 7 years
"Sanger's work with minorities earned praise from Martin Luther King, Jr., in his 1966 acceptance speech for the Margaret Sanger award.[81]"

"Sanger’s view put her at odds with leading American eugenicists, such as Charles Davenport who took a racist view of inherited traits. She continually rejected their approach.[117]"

"Consequently, she rejected race and ethnicity as determining factors.[115] "
over 7 years

CoryInConstantinople says

LOL
evolution doesn't include "insane fking mother who wants to KILL her own child"


Yeah OK mother-of-seven-severly-disabled-babies. You're the pinnacle of social progression.
deletedover 7 years
good ol' planned parenthood founded by my favorite eugenicist Maggie Sanger, wanted to rid the world of non-white babies (specifically black)--and I'm sure if we look up abortion statistics by race we will see her dream is coming true

ya'll are a bunch of racists
deletedover 7 years
LOL
evolution doesn't include "insane fking mother who wants to KILL her own child"
over 7 years
"I disagree with the theory of evolution" said no worthy human ever.