if it gets to the core of mafia eventually why do you need the stuff before that

why is it that i can deduce who mafia is using role logic in the worst closed role setups (with every pr and no discretion) and as mafia i can convince town im a town pr because mafia almost all have secondary visits to support their claims

at a point, you end up having a verifiable pr claim ccing another verifiable pr claim, at which point it comes down to explaining your visits, which is persuasion which is the core of mafia

outside of granny wins, there's always a logical way to play closed roles that doesnt depend on any meta

Regardless, my point is that multi setups are a far better option for those who enjoy closed roles.

there's little to no scumhunting involved in solving mechanics. scumhunting is why most people play mafia regardless of skill level

roadman says

Role logic =\= shîtshow of roles.

Multi setups are a good example of what the current closed role system strives to offer for committed players, with the exclusion of fancy pants.

multi setups also tend to be awful

Role logic =\= shîtshow of roles.

Multi setups are a good example of what the current closed role system strives to offer for committed players, with the exclusion of fancy pants.

cub do you think competitive players have gotten less rude since the merge? i feel like they have but only by 20% or so. then again, HC and harassment were looser in the old days so that could be why. i think in "competitive" lobby there was a higher standard therefore everyone was treated like they knew better for everything, which has changed

groundhogday says

cub says

closed roles is a dynamic that transcends traditional mafia as opposed to following tired strategies so it shouldnt be surprising if someone who actually likes playing mafia likes closed roles since it's a better form of mafia in many ways

"following tired strategies" means perfecting something with an insanely high skill cap. you can bring more creativity into closed roles but don't claim that apples transcend oranges

following tired strategies means having one meta for each setup as opposed to variety

sure some people like finding metas, but once it's found there's no point anymore, you just do the same thing every game

you want to call it "an insanely high skill cap" to feel like repetition can be conflated with mafia skill

Look, you can say this, that and the other about how complex you feel closed roles are, but if you can't control the variance in any way

, then it's just nonsense. The fact you have no limit on blue/nilla count means you could have auto mechanics, everyone could claim and have their role tested, and etc.

cub says

closed roles is a dynamic that transcends traditional mafia as opposed to following tired strategies so it shouldnt be surprising if someone who actually likes playing mafia likes closed roles since it's a better form of mafia in many ways

"following tired strategies" means perfecting something with an insanely high skill cap. you can bring more creativity into closed roles but don't claim that apples transcend oranges

do you mean adding a feature that limits town prs and adding actual blues? because that would make mafia overpowered in closed roles

what balances it is the fact that there's a high probability of any role mafia claims being cc'd, as well as the fact you can't claim blue unless you're claiming gallis or lm, both of which can be tested

you might see it as a clusterfuck of prs from a glimpse, but there's a lot of rational play

cub says

even an extremely random setup, as long as it has unique roles, is perfectly playable so long as you know how every role works (which is pretty expected in sandbox)

now if you didnt have unique roles, then it would all fall apart, but because you have unique roles ccing is still an important feature

With closed rolls, you need to have an option to include a blue count otherwise the mechanics exist beyond the realm of rationality. In the same way, 99% of compable setups really on power role restrictions.