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Closed roles in Main Lobby

SirAmelio
about 8 years

This will probably get a bunch of people trolling me and tons of downvotes, but eh, might as well give it a try.

Inspired by this thread and dooze's comment on it https://epicmafia.com/topic/78196

I suggest that we add closed roles in main. Why, you may ask, as it's the thing that Sandbox is known for.

It is. However, Sandbox is also known for being a lobby in which very few people actually cares about what happens and thus the games get full of trolls, and people that just dont play the game properly.

And there are quite a few people that would enjoy playing closed roles setups with a bit more of seriousness. people that don't think there is a strategy for closed roles setups cleary havent played them enough, as in the ocassional serious sandbox games that happen now and then, there is a lot of tactics, role knowing, and speculation people can do, and it actually can be quite interesting.

Closed roles can't be used in ranked games, so it wouldn't ruin the competition in any way.

Yes, I know not everyone takes games seriously in Main either if they are unranked, but in overall, the userbase here is more game-oriented than in sandbox.

People in main that just don't like closed roles games can just... not play closed roles games, so that wouldn't really be an issue either.

idk, i think its worth arguing about it, unless there is a specific reason why they are not a thing here that im missing, which could be.

peace

Closed roles in Main Lobby?
11
Yes
10
No
3
Other (Explain)
poser
about 8 years
cub do you think competitive players have gotten less rude since the merge? i feel like they have but only by 20% or so. then again, HC and harassment were looser in the old days so that could be why. i think in "competitive" lobby there was a higher standard therefore everyone was treated like they knew better for everything, which has changed
groundhogday
about 8 years
if it were anyone else i'd think i'm getting trolled
groundhogday
about 8 years

cub says

closed roles is a dynamic that transcends traditional mafia as opposed to following tired strategies so it shouldnt be surprising if someone who actually likes playing mafia likes closed roles since it's a better form of mafia in many ways


"following tired strategies" means perfecting something with an insanely high skill cap. you can bring more creativity into closed roles but don't claim that apples transcend oranges
roadman
about 8 years
God I hate typing on phone.
cub
about 8 years

roadman says

I started getting reported a lot for wifom strategies, and shortly thereafter I quit playing entirely, because the game became so simplistic and inane.


this is why despite the userbase, separation is/was needed (between comp and training)
roadman
about 8 years
Roles*
roadman
about 8 years

cub says

even an extremely random setup, as long as it has unique roles, is perfectly playable so long as you know how every role works (which is pretty expected in sandbox)

now if you didnt have unique roles, then it would all fall apart, but because you have unique roles ccing is still an important feature


With closed roles, you need to have an option to include a blue count otherwise the mechanics exist beyond the realm of rationality. In the same way, 99% of compable setups rely on power role restrictions.
cub
about 8 years
i actually tested this out, so long as town roles are unique just about any closed role setup can be played according to role logic

it's easier if all roles are unique though since you know once a ww is dead there won't be another as opposed to nonunique 3rds
poser
about 8 years
even now with this merge of training and comp, plenty of new players who aren't ready go into golden hearts because they don't actually understand that it is (was?) important and is, in fact, competitive. which creates more bad play reports and angry people who get no refunds
roadman
about 8 years
I started getting reported a lot for wifom strategies, and shortly thereafter I quit playing entirely, because the game became so simplistic and inane.
cub
about 8 years
even an extremely random setup, as long as it has unique roles, is perfectly playable so long as you know how every role works (which is pretty expected in sandbox)

now if you didnt have unique roles, then it would all fall apart, but because you have unique roles ccing is still an important feature
SirAmelio
about 8 years

roadman says

Besides, with as much variance as you get in closed roles, I honestly find it surprising that people take error's games as seriously as they do. It's like trying to solve a rubix cube with 16 colours.


error's games arent taken as seriously as they used to be, as far as ive gathered. even if they were, he's the only host that has games that people take that way, and hes obviously not around all the time.


besides like cub is saying, its a different way of playing mafia, and taken seriously could still be as fun as other regular mafia setups, they both take strategy, scum reading, knowing the way roles work, etc.
poser
about 8 years
if all lobbies were one lobby i'd kms because there'd be too many aggressive competitive players in closed roles and too many new players who have no serious intention in golden hearts. i dont think either of them would go out of their way for it, but considering the opportunity is right there, it's probably "sure why not"
roadman
about 8 years

cub says

did game related reports spike when main was created


Yes, as did pîssed off forum threads.
roadman
about 8 years

cub says

closed roles is a dynamic that transcends traditional mafia as opposed to following tired strategies so it shouldnt be surprising if someone who actually likes playing mafia likes closed roles since it's a better form of mafia in many ways


I don't disagree with this, but you would have to severely limit the amount of variance for any of what your saying to have substance within the context.
cub
about 8 years
did game related reports spike when main was created
roadman
about 8 years
This kind of just reminds me of sonseray's, 'let's merge unranked and sandbox' idea. The Userbase is just too small.
cub
about 8 years
closed roles is a dynamic that transcends traditional mafia as opposed to following tired strategies so it shouldnt be surprising if someone who actually likes playing mafia likes closed roles since it's a better form of mafia in many ways
cub
about 8 years

roadman says

Sandbox games are honestly more serious than main unranked ones.


i think throwing for your friends is taking the game more seriously than everyone vegging n1

i mean both are bad but in one instance people are trying and in another people are joining games mindlessly then vegging
roadman
about 8 years
Besides, with as much variance as you get in closed roles, I honestly find it surprising that people take error's games as seriously as they do. It's like trying to solve a rubix cube with 16 colours.
cub
about 8 years
its like sending /mlp/ back to /b/

it was created to contain these people why would you release them
roadman
about 8 years
Sandbox games are honestly more serious than main unranked ones.
cub
about 8 years
that's because it's main and not training

main is what happens when you put a containment board with an otherwise safe board
SirAmelio
about 8 years

roadman says

I didn't actually read any of the thread. I was just explaining why it's pointless. If it gets implemented in main then people would want to have ranked availability. It's better off staying in sandbox.


its not pointless, as someone who hangs around in both lobbies, you surely have noticed that even in unranked main, it has a better chance of being a serious game than any sandbox game (ofc there are exceptions here and there)

and thats my point, having closed roles setups in a lobby in which most people play seriously, generally speaking
roadman
about 8 years
i don't know if you've played unranked games in main lately, or even in the last year, but it's just a means to circle jerk.