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Is faking afk allowed?

Sinek8
over 8 years

A few reports I created ended up with no vio (like this https://epicmafia.com/report/187240) so I believe I dont know how this ISP vios work.

I wonder if faking afk is an isp vio or not.

I wonder if that depends on your side (town-maf-3rd party).

I wonder if thats an acceptable strat (for example, when everyone claims to clear, you can fake afk and not claim so town does not get the way of play they want).

I wonder if its ok to wait until kicks and blitz after faking afk.

Lastly I wonder if the time period you fake afk is important in possible faking afk vios.

I think we should clarify the rules about faking afk and I think it should not be allowed as a tool to blitz. (I also think it must not be allowed to fake afk in day for few minutes because i bekieve it is against the spirit and basics of mafia game but its not like we will be able to catch it.)

Betrayal
over 8 years

Sinek8 says


Betrayal says


Sinek8 says

@Betreyal Yes, you cant tell if someone faked afk in first three minutes of a game and may be its not important. But faking afk to blitz must not be allowed and it is obvious that you are faking afk when you dont talk all day and hammer the day. I think players must write that they are back and give people time to unvote/change votes if they are really back at kicks. If you get back at kicks and blitz you should get ISP vio for faking afk and you prob did not really come back at kicks anyways.


But from a blind perspective, there is no way to prove that they were "faking AFK" if they come back right in time before the kicks. Maybe, they really were AFK and they just happened to come back in a time of their favor. In the court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty. Without the facts, the science of criminal investigation is nothing more than just a guessing game.


" I think players must write that they are back and give people time to unvote/change votes if they are really back at kicks. " & " If you get back at kicks and blitz you should get ISP vio"

So if someone does not talk until day ends and blitzes when kicks are up, he should get a vio. It does not matter if he really came at that moment or not, he clearly does not have good intentions about it.

(If you keep thinking that way Betreyal, you cannot give any GRS vios)


Yes but I am talking about someone who participates half the day or 75% of the day but still gets an ISP violation before he voted the townie at the end of the day after the kicks. I am talking about the few, undisclosed cases of the "partial ISPer" who is wrongfully warranted an ISP violation.

Furthermore, players writing that they are back does not make them "town". Mafia can do that to therefore it is pointless. And it should not influence the course of the game.
Sinek8
over 8 years

Betrayal says


Sinek8 says

@Betreyal Yes, you cant tell if someone faked afk in first three minutes of a game and may be its not important. But faking afk to blitz must not be allowed and it is obvious that you are faking afk when you dont talk all day and hammer the day. I think players must write that they are back and give people time to unvote/change votes if they are really back at kicks. If you get back at kicks and blitz you should get ISP vio for faking afk and you prob did not really come back at kicks anyways.


But from a blind perspective, there is no way to prove that they were "faking AFK" if they come back right in time before the kicks. Maybe, they really were AFK and they just happened to come back in a time of their favor. In the court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty. Without the facts, the science of criminal investigation is nothing more than just a guessing game.


" I think players must write that they are back and give people time to unvote/change votes if they are really back at kicks. " & " If you get back at kicks and blitz you should get ISP vio"

So if someone does not talk until day ends and blitzes when kicks are up, he should get a vio. It does not matter if he really came at that moment or not, he clearly does not have good intentions about it.

(If you keep thinking that way Betreyal, you cannot give any GRS vios)
shaGuar
over 8 years
still have read nothing but if ur maf and u fake afk it's isp

especially in comp

get the fk outta here if you're going to employ tactics as cheese as that
Betrayal
over 8 years

Sinek8 says


PatrykSzczescie says



Insufficient Participation
Not participating sufficiently over the course of a game and/or an undefined period of time when addressed by another player or by a threat of votes or pinging. Sufficient participation does not include: Using gimmicks to speak - talking about non-game related things - Pretending to be AFK - vote flashing/using votes to communicate (excludes silencer setups and co.) Violation may also be applied if a user causes a loss due to a lack of game-related effort. This rule is only lightly moderated in red heart games.




When mod says that ISP isn't ISP, then:



Mod Abuse
Use of moderator or admin privileges for personal gain including but not limited to being selectively harsh on certain disliked players, or selectively lenient on favored players. Moderators being rude to the player base will not be tolerated either. This rule applies to lobby mods for Sandbox, Survivor, and Games. Report admin infractions by email to [email protected] with 'epicmafia' in the subject header.





I dont think anyone is doing favor to anyone in those cases, I think faking afk vio (under ISP) is not clearly defined.


Once again, ISP stands for "insufficient participation". i.e. If the Day 2 lasts 25 minutes, and Mafia A participates for 20 minutes and goes AFK in the last 5 minutes and then everyone votes and kicks and Mafia A returns to the game and hammers on the townie. Then Mafia A is not guilty of ISP. Maybe Mafia A had an emergency to attend to in real life to explain for his 5 minutes of absence. You can't assume that he's guilty of fraud and a misdemeanor merely on the presumption that he was AFK in the last 5 minutes and blitzed. That is unjust.
Betrayal
over 8 years

Sinek8 says

@Betreyal Yes, you cant tell if someone faked afk in first three minutes of a game and may be its not important. But faking afk to blitz must not be allowed and it is obvious that you are faking afk when you dont talk all day and hammer the day. I think players must write that they are back and give people time to unvote/change votes if they are really back at kicks. If you get back at kicks and blitz you should get ISP vio for faking afk and you prob did not really come back at kicks anyways.


But from a blind perspective, there is no way to prove that they were "faking AFK" if they come back right in time before the kicks. Maybe, they really were AFK and they just happened to come back in a time of their favor. In the court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty. Without the facts, the science of criminal investigation is nothing more than just a guessing game.
Sinek8
over 8 years

PatrykSzczescie says



Insufficient Participation
Not participating sufficiently over the course of a game and/or an undefined period of time when addressed by another player or by a threat of votes or pinging. Sufficient participation does not include: Using gimmicks to speak - talking about non-game related things - Pretending to be AFK - vote flashing/using votes to communicate (excludes silencer setups and co.) Violation may also be applied if a user causes a loss due to a lack of game-related effort. This rule is only lightly moderated in red heart games.




When mod says that ISP isn't ISP, then:



Mod Abuse
Use of moderator or admin privileges for personal gain including but not limited to being selectively harsh on certain disliked players, or selectively lenient on favored players. Moderators being rude to the player base will not be tolerated either. This rule applies to lobby mods for Sandbox, Survivor, and Games. Report admin infractions by email to [email protected] with 'epicmafia' in the subject header.





I dont think anyone is doing favor to anyone in those cases, I think faking afk vio (under ISP) is not clearly defined.
Sinek8
over 8 years
@Betreyal Yes, you cant tell if someone faked afk in first three minutes of a game and may be its not important. But faking afk to blitz must not be allowed and it is obvious that you are faking afk when you dont talk all day and hammer the day. I think players must write that they are back and give people time to unvote/change votes if they are really back at kicks. If you get back at kicks and blitz you should get ISP vio for faking afk and you prob did not really come back at kicks anyways.
Betrayal
over 8 years
If you are stupid enough to say you were 'faking AFK' when really you were pretending to be 'AFK' then you deserve the ISP violation.
Betrayal
over 8 years

shaGuar says

no its isp


No, it's a legitimate strategy that can be ployed to win the game. Like I said, just pretend you were really AFK and then you can fight your case in court and win. I have been practicing EM Law for 6 years now, I know from experience.
shaGuar
over 8 years
i read nothing but the topic title tho
shaGuar
over 8 years
no its isp
Betrayal
over 8 years
Faking AFK is a legitimate strategy that can be utilized to win the game. Just don't let people know that you were faking!
Iceaac
over 8 years
Just don't make it obvious you were faking

come up with literally any excuse

sry was making soup
sry phone rang
sry had to poop

etc
PatrykSzczescie
over 8 years


Insufficient Participation
Not participating sufficiently over the course of a game and/or an undefined period of time when addressed by another player or by a threat of votes or pinging. Sufficient participation does not include: Using gimmicks to speak - talking about non-game related things - Pretending to be AFK - vote flashing/using votes to communicate (excludes silencer setups and co.) Violation may also be applied if a user causes a loss due to a lack of game-related effort. This rule is only lightly moderated in red heart games.




When mod says that ISP isn't ISP, then:



Mod Abuse
Use of moderator or admin privileges for personal gain including but not limited to being selectively harsh on certain disliked players, or selectively lenient on favored players. Moderators being rude to the player base will not be tolerated either. This rule applies to lobby mods for Sandbox, Survivor, and Games. Report admin infractions by email to [email protected] with 'epicmafia' in the subject header.

codeslicer
over 8 years
IT IS ALLOWED
MelodyConcerto
over 8 years
From the way I see mods moderate; I'd presume the answer in short is basically: Yes, so long as doing so isn't against your wincon. But honestly they're probably more likely to give a vio for a GT report than an ISP report.

Basically I see mods use the ISP rule to punish those who join a ranked/competitive game and then tab out and not play the game at all. Faking AFK seems to be accepted as a valid strategy, even if it's one that some people personally hate.

While I don't "fake" being AFK myself, I am often quiet in a lot of situations while I gather what information I can. This is very often mislabeled as "faking AFK" or "ISP" by salty players. So I can understand why the mods may not always vio on an ISP report, specifically if the player at least made an effort to play at some point.

In the end I think more people on this site should step into the shoes of the person they are reporting and consider it from their viewpoint instead of screaming "I WOULD HAVE DONE IT THIS WAY", where you come off as salty about things not going your way.
Sinek8
over 8 years
There was another case which was againist Soda by another user. Soda faked afk all day, did not say a word, he was there, he read and he blitzed the day by a lynch. Soda was town.
Report ended up with no vio because soda talked in other days.
I think that was also a wrong sicimden, soda's d1 was faking afk with a clear intention and other days should not change it. He could get killed in next night and then his d1 would be a vio? Stupid. (https://epicmafia.com/report/182177)
Sinek8
over 8 years
There are some setups and cases where you can deal with fake afks by vegging or KL'in them, but in some of them it creates anti town situations. So KL is not a solution, a proper rule is necessary.