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How to make maf lose when cop n1'd

packidy
over 9 years

In fancy pants if cop dies n1, you can just nl until meteor.

Have players 1, 2, & 3 vote player 4. Then have player 5 & 6 vote player 3. Wait for timer to run out. Have 1 person kick.

Player 4 then has 2 options. He can vote player 3 and force meteor or he can self vote and die. Because he is the one being lynched if he is town he can legally force meteor. Meteor is only GT if you are not faced with an autolose situation. If player 4 is village then, its not gt since he has no possible way to win.

However if player 4 is maf, he then must self vote since he isnt in an autolose scenario.

Either way, mafia will lose. You may argue "but if meteor is drawn town loses too" and you are correct. But mafia wont be down with this strategy. You'll figure out who they are before the votes ever get locked.

I give you all this strategy because I came up with it 3 weeks ago and have been reported 3 times in roughly 5 games when this has happened. The first time I was not given a violation for this strategy. The mod said they were discussing it with the admin and although it is unfair to maf it is within the rules. I was reported yesterday and given a vio today from another report. This is inconsistency within the moderating team and if I was given the OK to do this approach by one mod I'd like to think others wouldnt give me vios for something I was told was ok.

What do you guys think? Is this OGI? Is using the rules to your advantage really OGI? Are not rules a part of the game itself?

Anthony
over 9 years
Clears could always, I don't know, lead a lynch on lylo
Sanctify
over 9 years
it took him 3527 games, but, packidy finally mastered the art of Fancy Pants.
deletedover 9 years
You've got to have the reaction time of a snail if you don't realize someone flipped their vote for no apparent reason.
packidy
over 9 years
Many PRs ask for crosses on lylo. That always allows a mafia member the chance to quickly change their vote just before pr hammers. As for the second part, you're missing the point if this strategy. It is a reaction test as well. So without actually floating through with the "loophole" you will find mafia fair and square through outsmarting them...like a boss
deletedover 9 years

packidy says

If they have a hint of scum coordination anything is possible...


Usually in a LYLO you're handing over all power and authority to the clear, what you're suggesting here is basically just giving scum leeway to do whatever they want because you're gambling. The two aren't comparable.

In any outcome though it's flat-out a loophole in the rules and instead of exploiting it you should suck it up and either lynch mafia like a boss or take the loss like a man.
hedger
over 9 years
......... jesus I didn't know people could be this dumb.
packidy
over 9 years
If they have a hint of scum coordination anything is possible...
deletedover 9 years
No they can't.
packidy
over 9 years
That's true but mafia can blitz in any cross scenario on lylo
deletedover 9 years

packidy says


Vitacon says

There's nothing to keep scum from blitzing this right before timer ticks out. There are zero benefits to doing this as town.


A day is 10 minutes long. If the PR is uncc'd he gives off the instructions as soon as the day starts. Once the first 5 players have voted the timer will drop to 60 seconds. If someone tries to blitz/change vote, the timer will go back up to its original time. It cannot be blitzed if done in a timely manner. So you wait for the 60 second timer to go down, then you kick.


Right, except assuming P4 isn't mafia you got 2 mafia voting (possibly) opposing people, meaning that with just a hint of scum-coordination you'll get done in.
packidy
over 9 years
Yup, plus one time I did the strat and we won. Next game the same thing happened but this time mafia killed me n4. So my toxic strategy actually AVOIDED meteor. Eventually this will be the norm. We will get away from mafia forcing meteor after N1ing the cop.
LIoyd
over 9 years
if I am player number 4 regardless of my role im voting early and not going along with this suicide strat for myself. but not everyone realizes where this is going so it could work.

and the key thing to remember with this strat is you get everyones reaction to the strat when you attempt to use it and you get more reads.

this is not a ''If I lose then you have to lose too'' strat

this is a ''im going for both maf and im gonna win'' strat
LIoyd
over 9 years
ok I could see saying that the villager must be required to self vote and not go to meteor due to there being a potential doctor or bomb.

but that is beside the point because the reason for this strat is not to make everyone lose it is to have a better chance of finding both mafia and winning.
packidy
over 9 years

Hibiki says

town are not guaranteed to lose if blue is lynched. bomb and doctor exist.


True, so I should make an amendment to the strategy so that only oracle can do this (gs would have likely gunned one of the previous nights while mafia nk'd).

But if that is the case, then why was I given a vio? Basically I tricked the mafia into thinking what I was saying was true but in reality it wasnt since I was bomb. So I tricked the mafia (thats the point of the game, to trick ppl in order to win) and I got a vio because of it.
packidy
over 9 years

NothinButTime1 says

maf should be able to force the meteor without getting a violation. self voting in this scenario is also playing against their win condition.

im assuming mafia forces meteor and town loses.


Self voting isnt against their win condition because if they are lynched they can still win. If they force meteor they autolose. THAT is against their win condition. Its made quite clear in the rules.
LIoyd
over 9 years
the doctor and bomb thing is a fair point but if the clear claims to be oracle or gunsmith they should be legal to do this
LIoyd
over 9 years
no the only way they CAN win is by voting for themselves so NO
NothinButTime1
over 9 years
maf should be able to force the meteor without getting a violation. self voting in this scenario is also playing against their win condition.

im assuming mafia forces meteor and town loses.
packidy
over 9 years

Hibiki says

and for what it's worth, i never gave you the OK for it. i made it very clear it was going to be reprihensible in the future despite the at-the-time ruling.


In the report you gave me ogi for slowrolling (wtf), and then said the following about the violation: "This was NOT for the meteor "tactic" (which is unfair but not against the rules) but for day 5, where he tried to influence mafia into killing a veg because they had to leave.""
packidy
over 9 years
NBT, I have done this strategy 5 or so times. The town has won 4. The only time the town lost was when meteor was forced...by the mafia. The mafia player was "player #4" and he didnt like what I did so he forced meteor. As the PR you obviously put your #1 fos in the position of #4. So basically you are lynching your fos with the exit plan of meteor.
Hibiki
over 9 years
and for what it's worth, i never gave you the OK for it. i made it very clear it was going to be reprihensible in the future despite the at-the-time ruling.
Hibiki
over 9 years
town are not guaranteed to lose if blue is lynched. bomb and doctor exist.
packidy
over 9 years

Vitacon says

There's nothing to keep scum from blitzing this right before timer ticks out. There are zero benefits to doing this as town.


A day is 10 minutes long. If the PR is uncc'd he gives off the instructions as soon as the day starts. Once the first 5 players have voted the timer will drop to 60 seconds. If someone tries to blitz/change vote, the timer will go back up to its original time. It cannot be blitzed if done in a timely manner. So you wait for the 60 second timer to go down, then you kick.
LIoyd
over 9 years
nothin, when you use this strat. the other team will think you are trying to make everyone lose. This will anger them. Then it will be clear they thought they were going to win. then you might just have 2 maf. and WIN THE GAME. great strat.
NothinButTime1
over 9 years
packidy, the point of the game is to WIN the game not have the other team lose the game.

when I look at any player, I care how many games they won. I could care less about how games their opponents lose.