In fancy pants if cop dies n1, you can just nl until meteor.
Have players 1, 2, & 3 vote player 4.
Then have player 5 & 6 vote player 3.
Wait for timer to run out. Have 1 person kick.
Player 4 then has 2 options. He can vote player 3 and force meteor or he can self vote and die. Because he is the one being lynched if he is town he can legally force meteor. Meteor is only GT if you are not faced with an autolose situation. If player 4 is village then, its not gt since he has no possible way to win.
However if player 4 is maf, he then must self vote since he isnt in an autolose scenario.
Either way, mafia will lose. You may argue "but if meteor is drawn town loses too" and you are correct. But mafia wont be down with this strategy. You'll figure out who they are before the votes ever get locked.
I give you all this strategy because I came up with it 3 weeks ago and have been reported 3 times in roughly 5 games when this has happened. The first time I was not given a violation for this strategy. The mod said they were discussing it with the admin and although it is unfair to maf it is within the rules. I was reported yesterday and given a vio today from another report. This is inconsistency within the moderating team and if I was given the OK to do this approach by one mod I'd like to think others wouldnt give me vios for something I was told was ok.
What do you guys think? Is this OGI? Is using the rules to your advantage really OGI? Are not rules a part of the game itself?
This should not be the case since he forced meteor even though he was not in an autoloss situation. Had he voted himself and been lynched his team would not have lost as a result. Therefore he gamethrew.
I'm just going based solely on the semantics of the words themselves. Honestly, I'm not against the use of the strategy, though I would not use and would be opposed to it's use in my games, but I am not against it's use it other's games. I'm just playing devil's advocate/holding a neutral argument.
The words them self, "game throwing" implies to throw the game away, not explicitly playing with intent of losing, but to ruin the game all together.
Eedis, gamethrowing is playing with the intent of losing. The intent of the strategy is to win the game by revealing mafia. Yes it has its risks but so does any strategy and those are not considered GT. Nobody is being "forced" to do anything; they don't have to follow the strategy.
Honestly, semantically speaking, Game Throwing implies that the value of the game has been thrown away. By forcing everybody to lose, under any circumstance, would be by definition and semantics, Game Throwing.
it (should) only work one way. perception of autoloss is a necessity as the rule is defined by intent. by choosing guaranteed loss over non-guaranteed loss, you are intending to lose the game. a technicality doesn't change that. the rule explicitly mentions meteors in order to increase the understanding that "it's not gamethrowing if you recognise that your choice is between autoloss and autloss"
Good point but I disagree since if the pr is oracle it is indeed autoloss. If p4 is blue and pr is orc then its autolose whether the pr has claimed or not. Thats just technicality. The players guess as to the pr's role shouldnt be factored in (because the rule is for factual autolosses, not perceived autolosses). If they all think pr is bomb then they think its not autoloss. But in reality that doesnt change it. It is still autoloss.
Also you shouldn't be rude to packidy even if you dont agree with him. He didnt do anything wrong. He is just bringing this up for discussion. It severely needed to be discussed.
You could say that the villager must always selfvote even with oracle due to the fact that the ''oracle'' COULD really be a doctor or bomb.
but the strategy would still be legal. the point of the strat is to get reactions. using this will surprise people. town will have a ''nothing to lose'' attitude. mafia will have a ''this isnt fair'' attitude.
then you get BOTH mafia and WIN the game.
deletedover 9 years
Thanks Pack.
deletedover 9 years
Just realized we got 4 pages of paragraphs regarding a classic Mafia variant play. I guess this is the closest we'll get to actually discussing Mafia gameplay.
Is that really a problem Milo? If maf forces meteor its gt. You never get refunded for gts in red heart games anyways. So its moot because that argument can be made in any scenario.
Also, I was just in a game in which cop was n1'd, I told town this plan. The mafia was in a disagreement with the strategy. The following night they killed me. So I was able to avoid a 6way meteor AND got the mafia to scumtell in a sense. Overall, this strategy works on so many levels.
The problem with this is admin wouldn't refund a gold heart even if mafia unnecessarily forced meteor let alone a mech abused red heart fancy pants game.
deletedover 9 years
Lynching D1 is actually vastly optimal and you should probably delete that post because it's an embarrassing attempt at a burn.
I guess I have to screw up FP meta when I get demodded then. Make an alt (so you don't know who I am), and beg town to do stuff like lynch d1, vote a random person d1 if town nls, etc. Note that none of this would be truly GT'ing so I wouldn't get in trouble for it.
What is stupid about the logic? If you'd like to debate Im open, but if you're just going to make allegations without backing them up with any examples, proof, or insight they will be unsubstantiated.
well when your logic is stupid, and it's obviously been shut down by anybody with a brain and the mods, I think that's usually a good sign that you should let it go and thus "shut up"
If this strategy becomes the norm then mafia will not force meteor in the future. Therefore the games will be less about 'oh no they're gonna bombtest' 'oh no meteor is on town' 'guys we cant nl, they will force meteor' 'but we have to nl, its mylo' and instead it will be instantly lylo and they can get on with the game.
How is that watered down? Its getting rid of 4 days of filler and whining and instead getting on with the game.
If its auto and town has a ml on any given game and someones gonna veg the town can KL that person to keep the game ranked. If cop is n1'd any given game and someone is going to veg town can NL to have that player veg and make the game go unranked. My point is, there have always been mechanic ways to do what is best for town. So to act like this is any different is narrow minded.
And yes, they can indeed scumhunt and have pr lynch correctly 2 days in a row. But this is an alternative that can be used on its own. Its a strategy. There are 100s of FP strategies. That is like saying 'sure pr could lynch in blues, but he could also lynch in cops'...they are all fine strategies but its up to the pr to decide which they think will result in a victory.
