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[POLL] Scumclaims and partners

Enamored
about 10 years

Should claiming scum and/or outing your partner ever be tolerated, even as a WIFOM "tactic", or should it be outlawed completely no matter the circumstance?

"Gamethrowing" is in quotation marks because it cannot be guaranteed to be truly gamethrowing, but would be treated as such.

What do you think?
36
WIFOM "tactic" should be permittable
7
Considered a form of "gamethrowing"
5
Get its own violation
Sims
about 10 years
who cares
Atrophy
about 10 years
for example if i am doing a wifom everyone knows they r not smarter then me so it becomes effectively nulled.

if xxerox does a wifom everyone thinks they r smarter then him and can figure out what he did, so now it exists... since xxerox doesnt think they r able 2 figure it out
Steven
about 10 years
You're so wrong about that Connor. Town can get information from WIFOM full well knowing what it is
Atrophy
about 10 years
well if u can get people to try to decipher ur wifom, then it still exists. the whole point of wifom is when u try to make a player think they r smarter than u can can figure out what wifom u did, but in reality u did 1 more. wifom only works if the person trying to figure it out thinks they r smarter, at which point it exists even if everyone recognizes its wifom
Enamored
about 10 years
if every player in a game recognises a statement from a mafia player is intended to be a mindgame, that statement effectively no longer exists.
deletedabout 10 years
As long as WIFOM is perceived to be a legitimate strategy by the person using it, you can't give them a violation for employing it.
Steven
about 10 years
Yeah it really was the case before, I have no clue when it was changed. Probably about the time when people stopped trying to objectify gamethrowing, which is a good thing
deletedabout 10 years
Let's introduce SilentMafia, a game invented, created, and sponsored by Connor.

"Because anything could be gamethrowing."
Enamored
about 10 years

Steven says

No it's not stupid, mafia is about mind games


no it's not lol. it's not even a mindgame. if everyone in the game recognises it's WIFOM, it effectively doesn't exist
Steven
about 10 years

Atrophy says


Steven says

Why is the last one acceptable atrophy?


because mafia is not pretending to throw, they are pretending to make a mistake, which is not against the rules (making a mistake)


Fair enough
deletedabout 10 years

Sims says

i think pretending to gt should be treated as actual gamethrowing


Quite. This was in fact against the rules for a long long time. I do believe it got changed at some point, maybe during Laexio's time, for some reason or another. Someone going on a crusade over it, no doubt.
deletedabout 10 years
Yes, Connor, but it could be Wifom!
Atrophy
about 10 years
peoples peoples please lets not resort to callin each othur stupids
Enamored
about 10 years

Vancy says


Enamored says

it's a stupid reason


Anything else?



Enamored says

Reasons to disallow all forms of scumclaims and partner outings, both true and false:
- Prevents them from ruining games because the recipients assumed they were gamethrowing
- Prevents gamethrowers from pretending they were WIFOMing
- Prevents them from pointlessly clogging up games by adding pseudo-levels of thinking, which in reality bog down to "did he do it or nah"

Subolg
about 10 years
Yea, I feel like you have to take it on a case to case basis. A lot of absolutist rules wouldn't work in Mafia since it's essentially a game about wifom.
Atrophy
about 10 years

Steven says

Why is the last one acceptable atrophy?


because mafia is not pretending to throw, they are pretending to make a mistake, which is not against the rules (making a mistake)
Steven
about 10 years
No it's not stupid, mafia is about mind games
deletedabout 10 years

Enamored says

it's a stupid reason


Anything else?
deletedabout 10 years

Enamored says

giving town a hint would be gamethrowing. so why isn't giving them a "hint" gamethrowing?


Bussing is giving town a "hint"
Enamored
about 10 years
it's a stupid reason
deletedabout 10 years

Enamored says

Reasons to allow scumclaims and partner outings:
- It could be WIFOM!??!!??!?!?!


yes
Enamored
about 10 years
Reasons to disallow all forms of scumclaims and partner outings, both true and false:
- Prevents them from ruining games because the recipients assumed they were gamethrowing
- Prevents gamethrowers from pretending they were WIFOMing
- Prevents them from pointlessly clogging up games by adding pseudo-levels of thinking, which in reality bog down to "did he do it or nah"

Reasons to allow scumclaims and partner outings:
- It could be WIFOM!??!!??!?!?!
Steven
about 10 years
Why is the last one acceptable atrophy?
deletedabout 10 years

Enamored says

the basis of making it a form of "gamethrowing" would be to assume under all circumstances that undertaking these actions are done with the intent to hurt your team, as no one with intent to help the team would ever undertake such actions



"But you can't just assume that its done with the intention of hurting your team. You have to take it by a case to case basis. If someone legitimately thinks outting their partners as WIFOM is a good idea, it isn't game-throwing."

Not everyone thinks logically 100% of the time. People think differently.
Atrophy
about 10 years
examples:

gamethrowing:

- argument happens in night phase, frustrated mafia is confirmed, gives up and out partner

trolling/ogi:

- mafia is confirmed and pretends to give up and out partner
- mafia pretends to not care about winning, pretending to troll the game with various hints about who mafia is

acceptable:

- mafia starts outing various contradictory players as mafia, or does it in a way that no reasonable person would think is anything but wifom.
- mafia accidentally outs partner with a grammatical slip
- mafia pretends to accidentally out partner with a grammatical slip