Should claiming scum and/or outing your partner ever be tolerated, even as a WIFOM "tactic", or should it be outlawed completely no matter the circumstance?
"Gamethrowing" is in quotation marks because it cannot be guaranteed to be truly gamethrowing, but would be treated as such.
What do you think?
36
WIFOM "tactic" should be permittable
7
Considered a form of "gamethrowing"
5
Get its own violation
deletedabout 10 years
well friends i put up a valiant fight but i must settle for being on the right side of history
the reason why one mafia setups are not comp'd is because mafia is fundamentally a team game (setups like one maf one killer excluded because killer, while on his own team, is effectively your teammate) . your actions not only affect yourself, but someone else as well. it's why gamethrowing is important. so even if, in some alternate universe where scumclaiming is WIFOM, your scumclaim is affecting the odds of your partner(s) being able to win the game unfairly on the basis of "would he really say that?". this is different from a playstyle choice. you're effectively giving town the means to end the game and make a loss for not only yourself, but for your teammates. there is no strategic value in this method when the primary means of interpreting the information is effective autoloss.
WIFOM is not GTing, and GTing is not WIFOM. do not mix the two.
Unfortunately, for the mod team, it should be a case by case basis.
deletedabout 10 years
i had a pretty thick conversation with project matt about this, but i'm gonna try and quote myself as best i can
[10/30/2014 9:08:04 PM] Slow: i think it's basically saying that outing your partner is strategy when it's not. i don't see any strategy behind saying x is who you should lynch because he's my partner since you're instnatly giving town the idea and while you could argue it as WIFOM, it just seems unfair to let it be seen as a strategy when it's creating an unfair dynamic.
[10/30/2014 9:10:01 PM] Slow: you, as scum, are putting the idea of the answer to town's question into the heads of the townies with no subtlety or strategy. presenting the answer to a question in itself ca'nt be strategy if there's no layering to it. if i tell you "3+3 = 6", i can't call it my strategy to have you go "well, is it?".
veiled gamethrowing is not WIFOM, should not mislabelled as such, and i vigorously fight against any attempt to do so.
Tbh it really depends on the case. Sometimes its a true gamethrow, sometimes its just a wifom. I think we need a new violation for this, and put down SOME standarts, so they wont out the night talk with timestamps or something. Because there's wifom, and there's just utter gamethrow.
You're quite right in this statement. And I do understand why the rules we have rules in place. However, my issue is that the real, original, in person card game (face to face) mafia was played with little to no rules. You just got a role, and you tried to win with that role.
Since this game has been adapted into a live text based game, it is understandable that there must be rules to regulate it. However, I think we're becoming to strict, and like you said, report happy with the game. You should really only get reports for suiciding, trolling , and isping, not for attempting a strategy that didn't work or isnt socially acceptable by EM society.
deletedabout 10 years
It's a fallacy that you can't "have fun" while also playing by rules and taking the game somewhat seriously.
The reason (i believe) fake cop reporting is given violations, is that once the cop is dead, people will blindly sheep whatever report he outed. This is usually a problem in fancy pants, where someone will out a fake report in order to not get killed.
I do agree that people are generally too report-happy on this site, though. Emotions run high, but everything should be cool once the game ends.
deletedabout 10 years
Why is it wrong anyway for a cop to claim a report he doesn't have as part of a strategy, or mafia claiming as part of a wifom? When the game Mafia is played IRL or on forums on other sites, everyone just plays to have fun, and you can pretty much do anything you want if you think it will help catch maf. This makes those games really interesting and each equally engaging as each game tends to have a unique situation. . The concepts of "wifoms" and "gamethrows" are really just EM concepts we created because a lot of people take the game too seriously.
deletedabout 10 years
Actually i would also argue, that it shouldn't be a violation to lie about your report as cop. Everyone else are allowed to lie about pretty much anything, except the cop. Having fake reports oftentimes give great results, but will sometimes backfire, because people somehow hold the cop to a higher standard. If everyone wouldn't be so biased, and actually try to read the person who was reported on, a lot of so-called "gamethrows" could be salvaged.
Epicmafia isn't a linear game. Yes, it does have certain strategies that tend to work, but primarily, it's a game where you have to convince people why you're right, and for mafia partners, this means deception. It's thus ridiculous to try to make certain strategies unacceptable/only a select few "okay.". If this is done too much, the game becomes boring.
deletedabout 10 years
You can discourage something without banning people from the site for it.
Most people are actually scared to name their partners directly, so a lot of the "partner-naming" wifom actually helps town (also because of interactions with someone you know is confirmed mafia). HOWEVER, you can try and make your conversation with someone else purposely seem scum-like.
As i said, bad play a lot of the time, not gamethrowing.
