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Does God Exist?

Satan
about 10 years

I'M BACK FOR YOUR ANNUAL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION

so do[es] he/she/it/they exist?

Edark
about 10 years

backinturqoise says

If you're meaning to change things in the Bible like "Hey, it's ok to murder now, sorry we didn't allow that for a while." I think you can see how that would be problematic?
The Bible talks about God never changing, why should His Word change?


He sure seems never changing , but you said earlier that he changed his mind about this contract(Old testament), so why wouldnt he change his mind now?
deletedabout 10 years

creator says


Edark says


LadyNemesis says

You don't 'update' the old works of Caesar either, do you? Maybe you translate it better, but you don't just update the works to represent the current worldview.


Thats still not even close to the same situation. A more accurate comparision would be an outdated rulebook being updated to todays values, which seems like a pretty OK idea for me.


It's been "updated" several times to justify various things done "in the name of God".




And how tragic that people do that. Twisting the Bible to say what you want it to say is a sad thing that has been done ever since the writing of Scripture. Jesus got TICKED when Pharisees did this (yeah, they did it all the way back then too)
LadyNemesis
about 10 years

Edark says


LadyNemesis says

You don't 'update' the old works of Caesar either, do you? Maybe you translate it better, but you don't just update the works to represent the current worldview.


Thats still not even close to the same situation. A more accurate comparision would be an outdated rulebook being updated to todays values, which seems like a pretty OK idea for me.


I don't see it as a "rule book", I see it as a work of cultural and historical importance. I think it would be a waste to just change it.
deletedabout 10 years

LadyNemesis says

Huge parts of the old testament are a pretty horrifying and gruesome read btw. I couldn't get through all of it.


Revelations is quite the throwback to that, though.
deletedabout 10 years

Edark says


LadyNemesis says

You don't 'update' the old works of Caesar either, do you? Maybe you translate it better, but you don't just update the works to represent the current worldview.


Thats still not even close to the same situation. A more accurate comparision would be an outdated rulebook being updated to todays values, which seems like a pretty OK idea for me.


It's been "updated" several times to justify various things done "in the name of God".
deletedabout 10 years
If you're meaning to change things in the Bible like "Hey, it's ok to murder now, sorry we didn't allow that for a while." I think you can see how that would be problematic?
The Bible talks about God never changing, why should His Word change?
Steven
about 10 years
I am personally very against the idea of subjective morality
deletedabout 10 years
And the Bible has been "updated." The way it has been is through different translations. There is a translation called "The Message" that uses a more contemporary language to communicate Biblical ideas.
Edark
about 10 years

LadyNemesis says

You don't 'update' the old works of Caesar either, do you? Maybe you translate it better, but you don't just update the works to represent the current worldview.


Thats still not even close to the same situation. A more accurate comparision would be an outdated rulebook being updated to todays values, which seems like a pretty OK idea for me.
deletedabout 10 years
Edark, you also have to remember that the English translation we have now is not the same as the Hebrew and Greek that the Bible was written in. So when it seems that god and God are the same word, the word for God is actually YHWH (or, Yahweh) and that is God's name. God's name is not God. Another name he calls himself is "I AM".

So, when it's referring to other gods (lower case g), what the Bible is saying is that it acknowledges that people trust in other things and make them "gods".

In the verses that mention God above other gods, or do not trust in other gods, as your forefathers did, what the Bible is saying is that God is worthy to be trusted, but others trust in.... Baal.... or, in our culture, others trust in money, government, sports teams, their own power, etc. God is God, anything else is not as great as He is (does this help? Or did I confuse you?)
LadyNemesis
about 10 years
That's how I personally see the bible btw, as an intriguing insight in history and culture.
LadyNemesis
about 10 years
You don't 'update' the old works of Caesar either, do you? Maybe you translate it better, but you don't just update the works to represent the current worldview.
Steven
about 10 years

Edark says


Steven says


Edark says

On a completely different note, doesnt it say in the bible that other gods exist aswell, but not as powerfull?


And people call Christians ignorant >_>


I am infact very ignorant of what it says in the bible, since Im not a christian. But luckily I got google!

Exodus 23:13

“Pay attention to all that I have said to you, and make no mention of the names of other gods, nor let it be heard on your lips.

Isaiah 44:6

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

Now this is confusing again, isnt this somewhat of an contradiction


Okay dude, I'll explain. God doesn't want you to go to praying to Zeus, even though Zeus doesn't exist. It's basically an insult.
deletedabout 10 years
The reason the Bible isn't "updated" is because Revelations is the final book which completes the Bible. It is written not to add on or take away from it or you will be punished.

:^)
Edark
about 10 years

eaglesbaby says


Edark says


LadyNemesis says

I think it's good to remember the bible's a pretty old book with a collection of stories that have been told to each other for even longer before they were written down.
The general beliefs and views of that time are completely woven into that book. I know some people think it is the literal word of god, but I think you should always place it in a historical and cultural context.


Why havent it been updated in 2000 years then


Edark, why would you update a cultural and historical work? Would you update the Mona Lisa because it was too reminiscent of the Italian Renaissance?


That comparision yo, its not even close. Why would you not update a book millions of people believe in to fit in todays society?
LadyNemesis
about 10 years
See explanation ^^

I don't believe in any of the gods from the monotheistic religions though, not in how they are presented in the books and blabla.

If I believe in god? I think that's a mystery humans can't solve with certainty.
eaglesbaby
about 10 years

backinturqoise says

The Old Testament functions as an old contract. Because of sin, God had to create this contract, because "The punishment of sin is death." So, to avoid having to kill all of us in an eternal death that we call Hell, he set up a sacrifice system, where we would have "scapegoats" if you will, that would be the death to pay for sin.

Obviously, God wasn't a big fan of that and wanted a closer relationship with us (since sin separated us from God. See The Garden of Eden. That's what God had in mind for relationship with us), so he had Jesus pay the one time end-all for the punishment of sin. This is why modern day Christians do not follow many of the Levitical rules and practices, because they are no longer needed under contract. The new contract is "Hey, if you want to be friends with Jesus, He's got the hookups, you can go to Heaven." (Paraphrased)

We still honor the Old Testament and read from them, as they give us insight into who God is/was, but nitpicking from the OT and thinking that is where everything is based is a foolish way to go about reading the Bible


Thank you. This is what I have been trying to ineffectively communicate.
LadyNemesis
about 10 years
Yeah and what eagles says, too.
Edark
about 10 years

Steven says


Edark says

On a completely different note, doesnt it say in the bible that other gods exist aswell, but not as powerfull?


And people call Christians ignorant >_>


I am infact very ignorant of what it says in the bible, since Im not a christian. But luckily I got google!

Exodus 23:13

“Pay attention to all that I have said to you, and make no mention of the names of other gods, nor let it be heard on your lips.

Isaiah 44:6

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

Now this is confusing again, isnt this somewhat of an contradiction
LadyNemesis
about 10 years
Huge parts of the old testament are a pretty horrifying and gruesome read btw. I couldn't get through all of it.
eaglesbaby
about 10 years

Edark says


LadyNemesis says

I think it's good to remember the bible's a pretty old book with a collection of stories that have been told to each other for even longer before they were written down.
The general beliefs and views of that time are completely woven into that book. I know some people think it is the literal word of god, but I think you should always place it in a historical and cultural context.


Why havent it been updated in 2000 years then


Edark, why would you update a cultural and historical work? Would you update the Mona Lisa because it was too reminiscent of the Italian Renaissance?
LadyNemesis
about 10 years
@Edark, because people think it's the literal word of god, so why update it?
deletedabout 10 years
Okay Edark is trolling now :^)

GG
LadyNemesis
about 10 years
Edark, before Judaism there was already a long history of polytheistic religions, I think it's natural that the stories and myths of these times can be found here and there in the bible.
The story about Adam and Eve is filled with references to even older religions and yeah, the old testament does refer to 'gods and sons of gods' and stuff like that here and there.
deletedabout 10 years
The Old Testament functions as an old contract. Because of sin, God had to create this contract, because "The punishment of sin is death." So, to avoid having to kill all of us in an eternal death that we call Hell, he set up a sacrifice system, where we would have "scapegoats" if you will, that would be the death to pay for sin.

Obviously, God wasn't a big fan of that and wanted a closer relationship with us (since sin separated us from God. See The Garden of Eden. That's what God had in mind for relationship with us), so he had Jesus pay the one time end-all for the punishment of sin. This is why modern day Christians do not follow many of the Levitical rules and practices, because they are no longer needed under contract. The new contract is "Hey, if you want to be friends with Jesus, He's got the hookups, you can go to Heaven." (Paraphrased)

We still honor the Old Testament and read from them, as they give us insight into who God is/was, but nitpicking from the OT and thinking that is where everything is based is a foolish way to go about reading the Bible