I think the issue is I'm defending a setup that's genuinely enjoyable and fairly balanced for both teams to someone who has not played it. If you get a free moment, go to Sandbox (as that's the only place for fun on Epic Mafia apparently) and play it.
Like I said, it's not the roles fault. Santa giving bread is the same as Santa giving someone no one in no bread setups which is actually a fair strategy, yet allows Santa to confirm itself at the same time (without giving a gun to mafia!)
If people are throwing you give them violations. People can troll and throw with every role: like gunsmith!
And your suggestions stink, because there exists no other mafia role (to my knowledge anyway) that is permitted in ranked that can kill during day without the use of a gun.
The way you're heading you are about to ban third parties from ranked, and anything really that was not part of a popular comp setups. And that's absurd.
Some of the roles you've banned, as I've already explained, are literally the counterparts of other roles allowed, some can be used quite competitively, and some are just fun roles like warlock that aren't game breaking. Stop it bront
The instances where bread was giving occurred extremely early on before I'd had chance to write strategies. Often santa would ask the clear "what bread did" - now that setup strats and role mechanics knowledge is there, we didn't see a bread gift for the subsequent 55+ games.
You dislike a setup you've never played and you're completely disregarding the fact that it's as balanced (if not more so) than unblacklisted current ranked/even comped setups due to 2 roles which, in terms of "power", even cancel each other out to create a fantastic game and decent balance.
I fail to see how a role that randomly kills based on word selection belongs in a ranked setup. Play it in unranked if you want Voodoo Lady. I've offered suggestions to make it fine for ranked.
That's the kind of problems with those roles, they enable people to troll by handing out bread instead of useful items. It screws up the entire game which is why Santa isn't suitable for ranked.
I shouldn't HAVE to. The mechanics of the setup require a mafia able to kill during day but without guns (so to avoid hitting BPs and clearing them, often leaving maf in near autoloss). Voodoo was literally the only solution and it still is.
The changes you propose are too distant from my original setup design, and I should not have to change a perfectly sound and decent setup because mods don't like voodoo ladies.
Emmerr, you can remake your setup without Voodoo and it will function the same if not better. It was townsided with voodoo. I suggest stronger mafia or replacing Santa with GS/BS like I mentioned in PM.
I don't see how though. We had maybe 1-2 games where someone would bread me on purpose for lols, but we wrote in the strat that bread is useless so only in about <5 games of those 62 was bread ever given. Guns and vests are the norm, though sometimes crystals can be optimal.
I cannot see an argument for banning santa, and even less so for voodoo if the setups they're in are balanced and played properly.
Yeah I know but once people get the hang of it it makes no sense to actually say those words and everyone will start talking the way I mentioned if they want to play optimally.
Actually we found that voodoo ladies were going for more 'game-related' words like "claim", "shoot" and "carol" - no one was talking oddly, they just avoided the 'common' words. I wish I had access to all the games we played in that setup to show you. :(
Steven 2h 55m The only roles that should be banned from main lobby are WW, priest, party host, tree stump (because it breaks games), Cthulhu, clockmaker, mistletoe, penguin, creepy girl, old maid, autocrat anarchist TC and Host . Maaybe voodoo. Bring back all the other 20 or so good roles that were banned (such as silencer, the bunch of third parties, ghoul, trapper, etc) and ofc they should be allowed in ranked as well.
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Stop trying to achieve some kind of "perfectness" in setups. You have interceptor, witch, bodyguard, and a bunch of other roles allowed and you're drawing a line on roles like Ghoul? Makes no sense
Fair enough. You understand why I think they're bad for ranked though since it makes throwing really easy because you can give the wrong items just to troll, etc.
Not really - we wanted voodoo because it gives maf an opportunity to kill during the day outside of guns (so BPs etc could be targeted) - the mechs of the setup meant we couldn't replace voodoo with anything. Voodoo was fun and players were getting used to playing with it. When we were playing the original setup (MC 1.0) there were no issues about voo being ingame. In fact, it's 54% townsided so not sure on what basis the voo was "swingy".
Santa is a glorified GS/BS, so we'd better blacklist Gunsmiths and Blacksmiths too because of how powerful THEY are (e.g. GS gunning cop d1 can put town in autowin in FP - vanilla example).
I'm saying that these roles can be abused - really Voodoo is the problem since it's so random. You can make a ranked setup and have it play almost identically by replacing voodoo with a different role that isn't so random/swingy.
Fab and Santa I'm iffy on because they're both pretty powerful and make trolling/throwing easier. Vested and Protected used Fab well iirc. Santa is a bit too powerful, like Chef.
Smh that you think spending hours on a setup to achieve balance could be 'for the lolz' - furthermore, if unranked setups are played for fun, lolling = fun = the point?
The two setups I made w/ Santa and Voodoo are in no way pointfarms - very much the opposite. They often take a good 20-30 minutes, sometimes longer, and introduce real scumhunting and optimal play mechanics into the lobby (an aspect of EM many players are unsure about/unfamiliar with).
Who said we wanted silliness and messing around? I think you're making some real assumptions about why we'd use the roles/make the setups at all. Some of us want serious gaming without playing vanilla setups that don't test anyone's skill or logic. So no, I won't go to SB to play roles that aren't doc, cop and villager, because we shouldn't have to.
Why would you blacklist fab and Santa from ranked? There's nothing wrong with those roles. Santa is basically a more diverse gunsmith for God's sake.
The thread you linked is good but does not cover 90% of the reasons you're using to ban these setups at all. Setups that don't break any of those rules shouldn't be banned
