people are using the same mentality for shooting a gun as lynching, it's absolutely impossible to make a competitively viable setup with guns, they promote trolling and gamethrowing, the power to instantly remove one person from the game is overbearing and this community can't handle it. furthermore, remove deputy, sniper and gunsmith from competitive lobby and training lobby. part of the problem is guns cause games to become trollish, fast-paced and lower effort which has leaked onto other games, guns probably should be banned from competitive lobby yes, guns are slowly killing competitive lobby. and by slowly, i mean someone get nikki on the phone and tell him to ban guns from competitive lobby. guns are becoming the new lynch, that'st he problem with most new setups. lynching is only ever for lylos now, and equivalent to set in stone absolutes, rather than placeholders for FOSes and reactions. it also encourages a chain of command that makes reading harder, hence why most gun setups end up being scumsided. not only do you run the risk of a *** pr, you also lose any valuable voting process and instead get SHOOT KYLE LOL a bunch. by replacing lynching for a ML with guns, you effectively neuter most competent setups and ruin any form of methodical strategy that could be employed.
guns shouldnt be in comp lobby.. plain and simple, they are either game breaking for town and make easy wins out of nothing or they give mafia a free win because the person with gun shoots. also , theres an entire rule dedicated to hipfiring with guns. guns give people an excuse to grudge lynch people without being able to be opposed. if youre pr with gun you have full control no matter how much town objects, which is just silly.
setup the best setup is what more setups should look like. both PRs shoudl optimally hide instead of claiming , PR claim d1 is the only bad thing about VDLI. if one of the power roles was squishy instead of hard to kill (doc is "squishy, bp is "hard to kill", etc") then it would be great , imo.
and i remember when people actually LIKED playing those scumhunt based setups,. they preferred it to gimmick ones. regardless of whether anyone thinks overall play is worse or better, the attitude people have towards scumhunt setups or scumhunting in general is worse now, which makes overall play worse as a result.
Pranay, just because we disagree about setups/guns doesn't mean you should insult me. I don't think you're an idiot for liking guns. If you believe they are good, I'd appreciate a thorough reasoning as to why they're good, especially given the points kyle and others have made in this thread as to why they're bad.
Yeah I mean, I know that removing guns would cause a huge backlash, but there really isn't a reason for them. It's like the same reasons for allowing 3rd parties, they're objectively bad for competition, but some people feel that they should be allowed.
What makes this tough is that there has to be a line drawn with what's good for the community and what the community wants.
In some ways, it isn't fair for a few users to try and limit what can or cannot be played. There are all valid reasons for disallowing guns though.
deletedover 10 years
There is nothing gained by allowing guns to be used in competitive any further, rather there is more gained by disallowing them. I really don't need to make a case why guns are bad for competitive at this point because if they were good then there wouldn't be a double increase in reports filed any time a setup with a gun is comped.
gun in comp is not bad at all. it adds another dimension to game. it provides scope for another skill set. bronto even thinking about this is stupidity. Reason why bronto should not be admin at all.
The lobby has been running well since ever with guns and A&D. New mods should not try to change the site.
deletedover 10 years
shut the *** up, he's actually a pretty good admin all things considered.
bronto should be removed from adminship right away.
deletedover 10 years
bronto, i respect that you want to give epicmafia users what they want. but that's simultaneously a bad idea, at least imo. they can still play gun setups, just not in comp.
Reverse getting banned was a bit different because it's a pointfarm.
Banning all guns will change the competitive scene quite a bit, and it's important that it's a decision made by more than just a few people in the community on the forums.
deletedover 10 years
you'll need to treat this like electoral college voting. users like retti and kyle are larger populated states like california and texas, while <300 games users are states like vermont.
@Cantankerous; I'm saying that people like guns because they're gimmicky and "fun" to use. I generally dislike gun setups because they encourage poor behaviors. The setups you mentioned are all great and challenging. For me, I find them more enjoyable and fun. However, the trend I'm noticing is that people go for whatever setups are the easiest to win on, and gun setups are generally easy to get carried on.
It is kind of a shame when a setup like Hollywood Illusions gets more plays in the round than cry n spy or STBS. At least VDLI still is getting played this round.
deletedover 10 years
same goes for a&d as well and competitive lobby. the most popular setup was blacklisted despite it being 'fun' for most people
deletedover 10 years
i'll make you your poll, but you know how it's going to end up and that it shouldn't matter. most of training lobby didn't want reverse mafia or sitd blacklisted either but they were and for good reasons.
deletedover 10 years
guns are way inhibiting to GTing, trolling, etc. anyway. if you're going to ban silencer, i can't see why you wouldn't ban roles like sheriff, which not only stop a player (without any rhyme or reason) from playing the game but also can count as a ML.
deletedover 10 years
there are a million reasons why guns are uncompetitive and having an affect on even setups without guns, but the only reason to not ban guns is because 'they're fun'
deletedover 10 years
you can only use 'fun' as a counter-argument for something that isn't stripping the soul of the site. fun is subjective anyway, i find fun in scumhunting and think that gun setups aren't fun by default but there are a lot of people who don't think that way. it's obvious that the community wouldn't want it, that's why guns are so popular but allowing guns to stay just because it'd be an unpopular decision even though it'd be healthy for the lobby and the site as a whole is foolish.
deletedover 10 years
comp isn't meant to be fun. that doesn't mean competitive setups and fun setups have to be mutually exclusive (see: vdli, b2ns, bv), but that doesn't mean setups should be fun, yet not competitive in the competitive lobby.
I know, but it's also good to see general consensus on the issue. Guns are bad, but people find them fun. I still wonder though if gun setups are popular because people actually enjoy them or if because they're much easier to get carried to wins on, like YYC, for example.
That's why I'd like the poll to see where people stand. If the majority of the community thinks guns should be removed, I would consider doing it. I'm not going to do it if the community doesn't want it, however. I think a poll outlining the pros and cons and a discussion thread attached would be a good idea.
deletedover 10 years
if someone has a good counterargument on why not to ban guns they can still post it here
