Back to Epicmafia

ban guns from competitive games

deletedover 10 years

people are using the same mentality for shooting a gun as lynching, it's absolutely impossible to make a competitively viable setup with guns, they promote trolling and gamethrowing, the power to instantly remove one person from the game is overbearing and this community can't handle it. furthermore, remove deputy, sniper and gunsmith from competitive lobby and training lobby. part of the problem is guns cause games to become trollish, fast-paced and lower effort which has leaked onto other games, guns probably should be banned from competitive lobby yes, guns are slowly killing competitive lobby. and by slowly, i mean someone get nikki on the phone and tell him to ban guns from competitive lobby. guns are becoming the new lynch, that'st he problem with most new setups. lynching is only ever for lylos now, and equivalent to set in stone absolutes, rather than placeholders for FOSes and reactions. it also encourages a chain of command that makes reading harder, hence why most gun setups end up being scumsided. not only do you run the risk of a *** pr, you also lose any valuable voting process and instead get SHOOT KYLE LOL a bunch. by replacing lynching for a ML with guns, you effectively neuter most competent setups and ruin any form of methodical strategy that could be employed.

guns shouldnt be in comp lobby.. plain and simple, they are either game breaking for town and make easy wins out of nothing or they give mafia a free win because the person with gun shoots. also , theres an entire rule dedicated to hipfiring with guns. guns give people an excuse to grudge lynch people without being able to be opposed. if youre pr with gun you have full control no matter how much town objects, which is just silly.

setup the best setup is what more setups should look like. both PRs shoudl optimally hide instead of claiming , PR claim d1 is the only bad thing about VDLI. if one of the power roles was squishy instead of hard to kill (doc is "squishy, bp is "hard to kill", etc") then it would be great , imo.

and i remember when people actually LIKED playing those scumhunt based setups,. they preferred it to gimmick ones. regardless of whether anyone thinks overall play is worse or better, the attitude people have towards scumhunt setups or scumhunting in general is worse now, which makes overall play worse as a result.

Goodbar
over 10 years

Cantankerous says


Goodbar says

perhaps rather than an outright ban on guns we could promote "no gun" rounds every 1 in 2-3 rounds or something.


i think this is weak.


Why? It's fun for those who still like gunless games without taking them away for the majority who do.
deletedover 10 years
and no pranay, comp lobby is dead because it's a pointless lobby but that's an issue for another topic.
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years

pranay7744 says

no wonder comp lobby is dying slowly. It is only because of mods like bronto. noobs who come in and think they know ***.


The points made in this thread are objecitvely good though. I'm sorry I'd be willing to make a change to make the lobby better. Training seems fine without Reverse.
deletedover 10 years

Roshiez says

if you ban guns im self deleting


as this thread goes on more and more reasons to ban guns appear
pranay7744
over 10 years
@retti- you are so stupid. just because you cant control people you want to ban it. it is not a case at all. we have seen countless games where gun has been very good. just few games where people troll. ban the trolls instead of banning roles. also there is no luck there. also everything is about team work. you are limiting the scope of the game. you understand nothing about team work and skill. gun adds a lot and you need to know how to control the gunned guy. gun is just one part of the game. gun on lylo clears people. there is so much involved. you are just plain stupid if you even consider this.
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years

pranay7744 says

bronto is lying. i saw the A&D poll. Only 6 people were active in that poll. Those who voted said nothing and bronto jumped the gun. out of those 6, 3 were not even mod when bronto decided the ruling.


There was also discussion in mod chat about it, some people just chose not to vote in the poll for whatever reason. Everyone on the team I approached during that time supported the decision, sans Arcbell who didn't give me a direct answer about it.
deletedover 10 years
if you ban guns im self deleting
deletedover 10 years
Pranay, I have 4 years experience on this website. Bear and Kyle have about the same amount. Would you like to call us noobs also?
deletedover 10 years

pranay7744 says

no wonder comp lobby is dying slowly. It is only because of mods like bronto. noobs who come in and think they know ***.


i'm pretty sure you're just bitter because bronto has earned public favor much more easily and quickly than you have.
pranay7744
over 10 years
my games fill even though people dodge. you dont know how to fill games. you are bad at everything you do.
deletedover 10 years

pranay7744 says

it is not just for fun. it showcases skill too. You dont know how to handle it. There is a lot of sumhunting involved with gun too. Only the idiots who never play mafia are supporting this


There is as much skill as shooting a gun as lynching a scum-read. The problem with guns is that people can't control themselves and they'll hipfire someone which, regardless if it's 'fun', is against the spirit of mafia. Guns are a luck factor that takes away control from the town in a game based around team work. It promotes bad habits in general which is why you see so many hipfires in the first place.
deletedover 10 years
if i made hollywood illusions but replaced gunsmith with a villager do you think people would play it?
pranay7744
over 10 years
no wonder comp lobby is dying slowly. It is only because of mods like bronto. noobs who come in and think they know ***.
deletedover 10 years

Goodbar says

perhaps rather than an outright ban on guns we could promote "no gun" rounds every 1 in 2-3 rounds or something.


i think this is weak.
deletedover 10 years

pranay7744 says

if filling games is your problem then you are bad. more people playing hollywood illusions means more people like it


didn't you complain about people dodging you somewhat recently
pranay7744
over 10 years
bronto is lying. i saw the A&D poll. Only 6 people were active in that poll. Those who voted said nothing and bronto jumped the gun. out of those 6, 3 were not even mod when bronto decided the ruling.
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years

pranay7744 says

if filling games is your problem then you are bad. more people playing hollywood illusions means more people like it


I don't think my tables were slow to fill because people were dodging me.

The question is though, do people actually like Hollywood Illusions or do they play it because it's easier/faster? YYC gets played heavily every time it's comped because it is a coinflip and easy for town to win if mafia makes a bad N1 kill.
Goodbar
over 10 years
perhaps rather than an outright ban on guns we could promote "no gun" rounds every 1 in 2-3 rounds or something.
pranay7744
over 10 years
if filling games is your problem then you are bad. more people playing hollywood illusions means more people like it
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years


it's not as though it's a few users. i'm sure the mod team would, by a wide margin, be in favor of banning guns. and yes, sometimes some users' opinions matter than other users' opinions. i'd rather listen to the 3 year vet than the "guns are fun" random user who will probably leave in 3-4 months.


I know, that's why we polled the mod team about A&D when I made the announcement to blacklist it. There was universal agreement to remove it. Gun setups cause headaches for the mods too because of hipfire GTs, among other things.

Pranay, I agree with you that there is a level of skill involved with using a gun, but how is this different than simply picking the lynch in any non-gun setup?
deletedover 10 years
i think another issue is that we should limit the amount of comp'd setups. i think we should make it one per user so they can't comp throwaway "my friend made this *** gun setup" trash that ends up being played (which is basically what HI was).
pranay7744
over 10 years
it is not just for fun. it showcases skill too. You dont know how to handle it. There is a lot of sumhunting involved with gun too. Only the idiots who never play mafia are supporting this
deletedover 10 years
hard not to pranay. i wanted to run this round but i couldn't because vdli is too hard to fill over hollywood illusions?
thebrontosaurus
over 10 years
The "don't play it if you don't like it argument" doesn't really hold water though because of how slow the lobby is. I remember running on cry n spy in Round 135 and waiting forever for tables to fill because everyone wanted to play PBJT and A&D.
deletedover 10 years

pranay7744 says

bronto is just a stupid idiot who knows nothing. he has done nothing good. everything he did was stupid and it harmed the site


imho this is extreme


thebrontosaurus says


Cantankerous says

bronto, i respect that you want to give epicmafia users what they want. but that's simultaneously a bad idea, at least imo. they can still play gun setups, just not in comp.


Yeah I mean, I know that removing guns would cause a huge backlash, but there really isn't a reason for them. It's like the same reasons for allowing 3rd parties, they're objectively bad for competition, but some people feel that they should be allowed.

What makes this tough is that there has to be a line drawn with what's good for the community and what the community wants.

In some ways, it isn't fair for a few users to try and limit what can or cannot be played. There are all valid reasons for disallowing guns though.


it's not as though it's a few users. i'm sure the mod team would, by a wide margin, be in favor of banning guns. and yes, sometimes some users' opinions matter than other users' opinions. i'd rather listen to the 3 year vet than the "guns are fun" random user who will probably leave in 3-4 months.