Hey all, I had a serious discussion with moon about setups, the site meta, and how to make comp more appealing. Why not make a separate fancy pants only lobby so new players aren't introduced to a setup that, may be fun but promote theworst behaviours for learning competitve play?
Guns and Hookers is an excellent red heart setup, and more setups like those (BASIC SCUM HUNT) should be played.
To those players who only play Fancy Pants, the Fancy Pants only lobby will still fill, and everyone will still be happy.
Maximum of 4 or 5 red harts spent on one particular setup per day perhaps, with the idea of players then having to try out different setups to use up all their games?
Seems to me the problem isn't Fancy Pants itself, rather that it's just disproportionately more popular than every other setup and as such players become less adaptable.
It's irritating for me personally at least because when I want to play a red hearts game that isn't FP, sometimes the games I host never fill or take so long to that I just revert back to playing FP since it's the only one I can host without having to wait ages to play.
Having Fancy Pants as "top setup" (the one that fills the most, above all for new players) is probably the worst part of current EM meta, since most things people learn, they learn them there. Having FT3 or TT3, or even CM instead of FP would be a GREAT step ahead into improving the site meta.
Now, one solution could be what many proposed (and itg said mods rejected) to make FP only unranked.
Another one, and I like it, would be to move FP ONLY players to a separate lobby, like it was done with reverse. This way, the ones who only play FP and nothing else (paya and similar ones) will still have where to play it, Main will not be spammed with FP games and for the new players the norm will be to see TT3, FT3, BS, BV etc... it will be a new generation of players ready to play comp.
What can be said against this option is "FP players are the majority, let the others move", yeah, but that would solve nothing. That would just create Competitive Lobby again, with some 100 members, and the new players would still go into Main and keep seeing FP spammed all day.
Also, I encourage everyone to host fake fancy pants setup, to force FP players to be in different setups and to get themselves into thinking setups :) (but please, make them GOOD fake setups, not just troll setups, please MAKE THEM GOOD SETUPS).
If I come up with other ideas, I'll let you know, this is my contribution for now :P
I like that you're still upset about a game in which as the clear, I choose to play a way that made you complicite in losing a game in which you only had one viable lynch (mafia) but you failed spectacularly and ended up losing for your own actions because when you're forced to think or be complicit in winning a game it's too much for you to handle.
Also I don't hate you, but you're the spearhead for this failed system that is grinding mediocre setups for points. The difference between your level of skill and FlyBriGuy's is colossal, but the amount of skill you display hardly varies from a newer player to someone else that's play FP way too much. You're not totally to blame for it, but if you've played 4000 games on this site you should be beyond blaming people when your own actions fail you.
there is no set up that 'doesnt teach anything', and what one setup teaches might be irrelevant for another. differing opinions
fancy pants players try to get fancy by softing as pr, softing as blue/maf/etc blah blah asfdsaf so its not like they aren't evolving anyways, its up to them to make the jump and start learning other setups
there are going to be games where they will be forced to scumhunt, and there will be games where its a NL and one lynch and the game is over.
also, its not even necessarily TOO terrible to be selfing for a clear and letting him lynch while offering your viewpoints, since a lot of setups depend on this anyways
Can't get around how ignorant this statement is. What is fundamentally wrong with NL'ing? It's done to avoid un-optimal situations such as 4 Way which in itself teaches the newer player how to deal with that situation. And how does FP not involve CC'ing? CC'ing cops is ESSENTIAL to win as mafia. Tell me how many games you won by letting cop uncc'd therefore his reports would be confirmed. As for sheeping the clears, I just stated there are CC's in a typical game of Fancy Pants, so what clears? In the most likely scenario there are 2 sides each with 1 cop and 1 other. This means D2 there is 1 left out. He's basically the only clear, so he can't sheep himself...
There are tons upon tons of luck-based and inherently imbalanced setups. Fancy Pants isn't all that townsided at all. Although its games may often get decided by the blind kills the mafia makes, it is more balanced than most setups. It isn't worthy of being the most popular setup but there you go.
And again, Guns&Hookers involves little to no PR reading. Due to the fact, simply, GS and Cop both out themselves D1 and that's game for you. Not my cup of tea for a setup. It is also quite luck-based which you criticized FP for previously.
I don't care for what results from this discussion, but most of what you said is completely redundant.
I can easily answer. People need to compare with other people thus the stats are very important to them, that's why they keep looking at them in game, to pick kills, to "scumhunt" etc. This is dumb but if you blacklist FP they won't play it anymore because they don't love Fancy pants itself, they love winning games/points/achievements really fast. Indeed the faster is the game the better is the setup for casual players, because you reach achievements very fast with FP (thanks to nilla, cop, doc, gs, orc, bomb). Once again that may look dumb but most of people love receiving "gifts" and they don't really wanna try for about 45 minutes to lose, this is a waste of time and I understand that. 75% of EM players just don't care about competitive wins, they just want to win what they can win... Points, achievements and have some fun, but certainly not trophies because they think it's too hard and it's not worth it.
Can you stop talking about me all the time? Cure your obsession dude. You keep complaining about FP players, keep crying you don't wanna play players when you give hammer to unclears, and have winrates because you love giving responsibilities to other people to put the blame on them when you're unable to read people right. You just sound like a bitter gramps. I don't care if I'm the best player of this website or no, I have won many games by my own, I have won many games thanks to other guys, I have lost many games by my own and I have lost many games because of other people. So what? I know you may be in love with me, but I really don't care about you, so stop insulting me to bring my attention on you. Thanks.
Another serious question: Why do casual players need points? If it was truly for fun and for 'casual' purposes why do you need to win points on setups like FP? Why would playing them only unranked ruin the experience?
God forbid I'd prefer to have more players like yourself that don't need to grind mediocre setups than the next MafiaGod or SuperNova. This isn't http://simulatedmafia.com
if casual players want to devolve then that's what they want to do, you can't force people to play how you want them to play simply because u don't like how they play
On ~150 occasions over the last 3 years I've found myself in the situation where no set-up other then FP is filling, and been forced to make or join a FP game (or just not play) as a result.
By getting beginners to play a set-up other then FP, that problem will occur less frequently. There's enough people who enjoy FP for it to get its own lobby and fill, this way the beginners are playing other set-ups instead.
Fancy Pants is a horrible setup that ruined one of the best setups, Classic Mafia. Classic is a great way to learn how to play mafia. You can't even have a game of classic anymore because everyone thinks it's fancy pants and doesn't play it right.
the playerbase complaining about fp is in the minority, making fp regulars change lobbies because a select few individuals spend their time copmalining about it would be idiotic.
