Hey all, I had a serious discussion with moon about setups, the site meta, and how to make comp more appealing. Why not make a separate fancy pants only lobby so new players aren't introduced to a setup that, may be fun but promote theworst behaviours for learning competitve play?
Guns and Hookers is an excellent red heart setup, and more setups like those (BASIC SCUM HUNT) should be played.
To those players who only play Fancy Pants, the Fancy Pants only lobby will still fill, and everyone will still be happy.
Good idea, y/n?
Fancy Pants Lobby?
36
N
32
Y
deletedalmost 9 years
It's because most people cared. The mods half have their hands tied with what they can do because of lucid. Maybe they should go back to half the points of a gold heart game. But I don't know that will help either.
It's up to you as an individual to find success especially in a meta where the only skill you need is the ability to get people to like you. You can't expect handouts or sympathy from anyone and taking that approach is why transitioning has been so hard for you. If you understand that you're supposed to identify town and mafia and work towards your alignments win condition, you're competent enough to play any setup competitively.
There shouldn't be an interim between comp and sandbox. Point farming should be abolished long enough for a better meta to take hold of this site for people like yourself that would play red hearts if they weren't exclusively pointfarms.
The point/reward system is a different beast entirely, but the casuals are what keep the site alive and trying to cut out anything resembling a casual setup would only hinder the site and make more casuals think that comp players are elitist.
Thing is though, by trying to make the community ultra competitive, you will put off a lot of the player base and reduce the number of players who play. I talked to moon about how to keep players on and I suggested we have a system similar to games likes CandyCrush or WoW which gives out fast, frequent rewards at the start but then slowly staggers out the rewards to infinity to keep casuals on board and to ensure the site has enough daily visitors.
I've been on this site too long. I remember back in '10 asking for support to get the meta back as strict as it was in '09 and got no support because to this day people don't understand how bad pandering to casuals is for a game in which you have to suspend disbelief and care in order to find success.
There's no incentive we can offer to casuals that will make them less casual because being casual is a choice. This has been proven by every failed attempt that's been made and since no one has addressed the casual complex, every attempt has or will fail.
High level mafia can be played casually if the community understand the roles and function of each setup well enough to focus on individual actions. It worked for this site for 2 years before we gave up teaching people as a community for training which devolved into pointfarming.
Having 950+ games of Fancy Pants myself and having only recently moved on to test different set ups, I'll tell you the reason I stuck to Fancy Pants.
It wasn't to improve my skill level. It was because having a red heart next to the game made people take it quite seriously (unlike Sandbox), but at the same time losing it wasn't the end of the world. The mechanics were simple, and whilst there are harder set ups and more to get out of the game, Fancy Pants is a sufficient challenge for many players to win consistently.
In competitive lobbies, people are just that - competititive. They LIKE TO WIN. If I don't have experience in other set ups, can't play at the same level as them, then there was no reason for me to join. I would be ruining the game for them by having the equivalent of a first time no avi join the game, and wouldn't enjoy myself because I couldnt understand the game.
The whole problem of having seperate lobbies, blacklisting fp, whatever, is that the jumps are too steep between set ups. There needs to be a bridge for newer players to cross to playing harder set ups, not a leap of faith.
There's no need for a 'new' point farm lobby when we already have one.
D1 mylo setups so people have to resolute in their actions
Skip the introduction and rely on the community to carry new players. This wasn't a problem in '09 and it wont be a problem for anyone that comes to this site to play mafia.
If you believe this there is no solution, even when the solution is obvious.
I think the biggest problem is that no one that joined after '12 has any expirience of what this site was like before the plague that is point farming and it's really up to those of us that do remember to break this meta long enough for people to have the option of saying no to pointfarming.
deletedalmost 9 years
A better way to ween people off fancy pants is to give them a reason to not keep playing it over and over again. Maybe start giving new players some type of reward if they play x many type of setups. Or each time they win a game of fancy or any red heart thats a point farm the amount of points they earn go down.
There isn't really any reason to stop playing fancy if you're just trying to casually play. These aren't people who look at the forums and aren't always looking to be serious about mafia especially without an incentive too.
This isn't true. When I came back I was documenting my games. The average number of games people had of FP when documented was 126, then 74 when you removed people that had over 400 games. You can't make excuses because having 0 FP games and having 1000 isn't an indication of your level of skill.
You can't start by pandering to casuals. It's up to the community and the individuals to make great players, you can't keep trying to hold people's hands and think that they're going to develop and act on their own. Both training and FP have shown us this, so if you're serious about finding a solution stop using this line of thought.
Seriously name the last legendary player and when they started playing on this site. There wasn't anything that moved them besides the desire to get better and the competition to do so. If you choose to forgo this and pander to casuals, casuals will remain casual.
Bring all of the D1 mylo setups back and remove them if people find a way to point farm them. The more advanced the setup, the less likely it is to be farmed. You can't forget that this is a team/community game and it's up to individuals to project their will in game in order to find results.
deletedalmost 9 years
lol what is the point in replacing one bag of crap with another bag of crap
Because townsided clear led setups are a tumor, and you can't just cut around it and think that it's not going to grow back. If you ban FP people will just migrate to the next point farm and we're back at square one.
deletedalmost 9 years
Lucid would also not like the mods "modding games with a iron fist"
You say this because you don't understand why metas exist. We've been in a "pointfarming follow the clear meta" since the lobbies were merged and we're not going to break that by forcing people to show less apathy.
You can't blame the players for 'optimizing' a setup down to which people need to interact at what time, you have to remove those setups from being viable so that people don't play them and adopt those behaviors. What you're proposing would just cause games to be filled with more BS than they already are and that's not a solution.
