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My thoughts on Harrassment.

over 6 years

So, given the publicity that Calcium's thread has garnered, and the intense discussion it's cause, I figured I'd give my own opinon on the current status of the Harassment violation.


What Constitutes Harassment

As per the current ruleset, harassment is explained as the following:

  • Making repeated/severe personal attacks toward or slandering another Epicmafia user when the user has asked the harasser to stop. If filing on behalf of another user, one must show the consent of the harassed person.

The important things to note here is the following:

  1. Repeated or Severe
  2. Personal Attacks against or Slandering
  3. User has asked the harasser to stop

These 3 components is what constitutes a current harassment violation. If one of them is missing, a harassment violation is unlikely to be given. However, the second component of this rule is something that is rather argueable as to what is considered "Personal Attacks or Slandering". From my personal opinion, I find that anything that can give a user a bad name among the players on this site, given society's standards, should be considered harassment. Some of these terms are:

  • Pedophile
  • Molestor
  • Thief

Now obviously, just because someone calls someone else a slanderous word, does not mean that the one being called it finds it harassing. I've been called plenty during my time on this website, and have never reported for harassment as I've never found anything I've been called to be severe. So you shouldn't NOT say the terms I mentioned before in fear of being slapped with a harassment vio. However, when asked to stop YOU SHOULD STOP.


Harassment in the jakerton report

Next I'll give my thoughts on the report which brought about the original discussion of the report.

  1. At 10:07 in the game was the first instance of jankerton calling Jeff a pedophile.
  2. At 10:25 Jeff reacted and told him that's harassment. That should had been indicative enough for jankerton to stop, but I could see someone not getting the memo here.
  3. However he continued at 10:44.
  4. Jeff straight out asked him to stop at 10:50.
  5. At 12:10 Jankerton calls Jeff a "teen tickler" once more,having been firmly asked to stop.
  6. Though 14:46-15:07 He continued, however did not explicitally named Jeff.
  7. At 16:30 He once again Called Jeff a "teen tickler"
  8. At 16:43 Zayn asked him why he's harassing him.\

At points 1, 3, 5, 7, and arguably 6, Jeff was called a pedophile (+synonymous words) by jankerton. At points 2, 4, and 8, he was asked to stop + pointed out that what he was saying was harassment.

So given the previous 3 important pieces of a harassment violation, we can easily see the following:

  1. Repeated / Severe Repeated
  2. Personal Attacks / Slandering Slandering
  3. Asked to STop Three Times

At that point, what jankerton was doing consitituted harassment, and definitely constituted a vio.


NOTE or Vio?

Now we get to the moment of which the original arguement between mods in the previous thread sparked. Does it deserve a note, or a Harassment 1st? If we go by what the rule page specifies, a first time offense is supposed to get a warning. A quick search of previous reports against jakerton finds that he only has a single active vio for gamethrowing, and none currently of harassment. Therefore, going by what the rules page says, he should had been warned (vio reports) and told to stop and further instances of it.


6 Months Too Long?

Another point that was made in the thread/report was that an active harassment vio for 6 months seemed too long. Comparing the rule to other community violations finds the following:

  • Hurtful Comment Expires in 3 Months
  • Exploit Abuse Expires in 6 Months
  • Inappropriate Biography Expires in 3 Months
  • Inappropriate Avatar Expires in 3 Months
  • Inappropriate Content Expires in 4 Months
  • X-rated Material Expires in 3 Months
  • OPI Expires in 9 Months

Now the only ones that you could compre Harassment too is Hurtful Comment, However, when compared to community violation lengths of the other reportable offenses, 6 months DOES seem too long. Especially given that you could get a Harassment violation easily just for having a bad day and pissed at someone. In my opinion, I find that harassment vio's should be lowered to 3 months given that Hurtful comment gives you a 3 month experation period, or HC should be bumped up to 6 months expiration period.. This point is argueable, of course, and could be open to some discussion.


Final Thoughts

Honestly the public discussion got way out of hand. Generally speaking, if you disagree with a verdict of a reprot on this site, should you not first discuss with the moderator who gave the sentence to find out why?

  • It was DEFINITELY harassment
  • Report should had been a note + a warning from a mod given he had no previous active vios
  • HC and Harassment vio expiration length should be the same
  • Both Shoopie and Ally got out of line with the direction they took in the report and topic
  • you all.
over 6 years
lol i saw that
over 6 years
im just joshing i think ur kewl we should hangout sometime how about we melt some oreos in a campfire
over 6 years
I don't practice santeria I aint got no crystal ball well i had a million dollars but i'd i'd spend it all
over 6 years
My thoughts on Harry Pooter and the Sorceror's Bone
over 6 years

calciumkid says


Ally says

holden was warned twice before he was given a vio for it

also, shoopie sustained the report on holden. are you calling your bff biased?


Ally, my point is that Holden responded to the warnings UNTIL Jeff talked about Holden in his thread and Holden got angry.

You can't report someone for harassment, and then continue to talk about them. That alone is enough reason why both Holden's harassment vio's should be removed.

Shoop ur my new bff now how does it feel


I completely agree that what Jeff did was entirely wrong here. However, once more, Holden took the wrong course of action and as a result was vio'd.

If he had reported Jeff for his comment in that thread with the points you had made, I would had sided with him 100%. In fact, I still side with Holden in regards to not deserving what was said about him, and believe Jeff to be in the wrong for bringin him back into the discussion, but that doesn't excuse his actions in the slightest.

It's not too late either, Holden can still appeal it, and plead his case regarding the points you have made. However, a 3rd party arguing against the mod's decision won't do much if the person who was vio'd for a community rule break doesn't defend themself.
over 6 years

Shoopie says


PeanutMarmaduke says

when shopppie called me the n word with a hard r i was hurty feelie no-nod but i had a nappie and now im feelie better


This is the 2nd or third time you said I called you n word with hard r... did i? :doge:


ya u thought u were being sly saying im a ginger then saying rearrange the letters lol
over 6 years
let's derail this topic and talk about our favorite Harrold memories
deletedover 6 years
Songin for president
over 6 years
I don't practice santeria.. I ain't got no crystal ball.. Well I had a million dollars but i'd.. i'd spend it all
over 6 years
where was superman when jared fogle needed him most?

over 6 years

peach says

we should have a violation category called 'said a hurty feelie no-no mean thing :('


its called mod abuse

@peanut noot noot
over 6 years
when shopppie called me the n word with a hard r i was hurty feelie no-nod but i had a nappie and now im feelie better
over 6 years
My Thoughts On Jared Fogle Innocence Project
over 6 years
we should have a violation category called 'said a hurty feelie no-no mean thing :('
deletedover 6 years

Ally says

holden was warned twice before he was given a vio for it

also, shoopie sustained the report on holden. are you calling your bff biased?


Ally, my point is that Holden responded to the warnings UNTIL Jeff talked about Holden in his thread and Holden got angry.

You can't report someone for harassment, and then continue to talk about them. That alone is enough reason why both Holden's harassment vio's should be removed.

Shoop ur my new bff now how does it feel
over 6 years
I thought this was 'My Thoughts on Harrold'
over 6 years
thought this was gonna be 'My thoughts on Harry' and i was gonna talk about how much i love harrold but alas
over 6 years
I really think Songin is onto something there.
over 6 years
Likewise, in regards to time length, what about splitting up Harassment into two vio categories?

Harassment and Severe Harassment. Harassment would be such as what happened in the case which prompted this discussion, and the time length would be much shorter than severe harassment, which would be given in cases where the user shows complete and utter disregard to the ruleset, along with pure intent to harasss the user. Obviously it would have to be ironed out, however this could be the solution you both are looking for. Normal Harassment Vios would be shorter, and could be handed out easier, but would not last as long as they currently do.
over 6 years
Holden was warned twice to leave Jeff alone. That's going up and beyond being generous, as the second time he should had been given the harassment violation. For the context, the original thread is no longer accessable, so I cannot give opinion if the original warning was warranted or not, however, if presuming it was, Holden took the wrong choice of action.

Likewise, Holden should had put in a report that Jeff was harassing him in the thread. Harassment CAN and does go both ways a lot of times. I wouldn't have been suprised if Jeff had been noted for it as well. Holden took the wrong approach to addressing Jeff.
deletedover 6 years
holden was warned twice before he was given a vio for it

also, shoopie sustained the report on holden. are you calling your bff biased?
over 6 years
See Songin just found the issue between us. Pointed it out clearly and provided his opinion and solution in a clear and concise wiay.

Yes to the duration. The duration for the action was really the part I disagreed with and is why I believed it to be too harsh to begin with.

If there was something between HC and harassment I would have chosen that.
deletedover 6 years
By this logic, Both of Holden's harassment vio's should be removed. The first one should I have been a warning (not even a note), and the second time Holden never insulted Jeff. Jeff talked about Holden UNWARRANTED on his thread and Holden took the bait and responded.

Jeff's report on Holden was SLOPPY and Ally/Blacksnakemoan had a personal grudge on Holden and didn't moderate the report at all. Jeff made multiple anti-semitic attacks on Holden and never received a violation, and the moderators never even gave Holden a fair chance to appeal the vio because it was sustained within 30 seconds after Holden filed the appeal, that is not even time to even read the appeal.

Jeff claimed Holden called him a woman, but Holden's exact words in response to Jeff talking about Holden in his thread were, "If I preferred feminine people, I'd date a woman."

When you take that in context, Jeff's reports twisted Holden's words MAJORLY and Jeff got away with not only making fun of Holden coming from a family of holocaust survivor, but also saying Holden is disgraceful to the LGBT community because he refuses to be a stereotype and does not want his bisexuality to be his whole identity.
deletedover 6 years

calciumkid says

The fact it didnt even go to In progress and was insta viod p!ssed me off. I see whats going on around here and i promise as long as im still an active user here im not gonna lets sh!t slide.


i had it in progress while i did the report but i don't leave things in progress, i put them in progress, do them, and then close them. most mods do that tbh not many mods actually put things in progress for any length of time
deletedover 6 years
moved to epicmafia

harassment isn't too long because it's generally targetted; it's different than HC. HC can be just randomly calling someone a slur. harassment is repeated and should be kept on record for longer imo.