over 7 years

Who are you UK kids going to vote for?

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18
Labour
7
Conservatives
5
UKIP
2
Liberal Democrats
2
Greens
2
Other
1
Undecided
over 7 years

Enamored says

d'you think there might be a rise in labour voters in ireland after they pledged to work w/ the assembly to decriminalise abortion there?


Unlikely to have much of an effect. Sinn Fein eclipsed Labour as the main left wing party in Ireland some time ago and even those on the left who won't vote for Sinn Fein due to their... distasteful... history, People Before Profit have about an equal share of the vote to Labour too - and I'd probably vote PBP over Labour there, too. Labour in Ireland are fill the Liberal Democrat role - and their main hope of getting into government is a junior coalition partner - ideally to Sinn Fein, as their past history allying with Fianna Fail or Fine Gael, both of whom are centre-right conservative parties, hasn't generally ended that well for Labour.
over 7 years
over 7 years
over 7 years
d'you think there might be a rise in labour voters in ireland after they pledged to work w/ the assembly to decriminalise abortion there?
over 7 years
Haha, fair play. I have these discussions pretty regularly on another forum, so it's pretty easy to write walls about. G'night.
over 7 years
Just to clarify, I have read it. I was typing up a response but I'm knackered.
over 7 years
It's 3:20 AM. I could handle one wall of text. I don't think I can do two. I'll reply to this tomorrow if I remember. Heavy eyes and all. Good night!
over 7 years
As for his Republicanism - unlike Trident, he's not even made the slightest attempt to make this Labour policy. He knows it's a lost cause and he's comfortable in that. It's his personal view, and nothing more. I think most people know that and know there are far bigger fish to fry.

As for the £250bn National Investment Bank - I think you misunderstand it. It's not an actual "bank" that can fail - it's basically like another arm of the Bank of England, that lends directly, rather than more Quantitative Easing that gives the money to commercial banks so they'd invest it on. It's going to be paid for via borrowing - as it's an investment for future returns. And it's aimed at major infrastructure projects, in general. There's no chance of a "bailout" - the risks involved are more of the White Elephant kind (a la stupid government projects like those empty airports in Spain). But given how outdated British infrastructure is, I don't think that's likely to be a major risk in the short-to-medium term because there are plenty of things that blatantly need upgrading before they can start wasting money on dumb stuff like that.

It's also not particularly socialist, or even that left wing. Right wing nationalist parties often advocate similar things. It's just libertarians & neoliberals that hate any government involvement that abhor the idea of national investment banks. The idea behind it is to spend money in order to get back more money later. It's Keynesian Economics, not something out of Das Kapital :P
over 7 years
A lot of those empty houses are "investments" by foreign-owners - particularly those in London. Buying properties in London is actually a better investment than a gold mine these days. A lot of European cities countered this by banning foreign ownership, and really we should do the same. But the fact is that in the 1970s we regularly built 200-250k council houses per year, and it was only under Thatcher that this ended - and Right to Buy sold off the existing stock without it ever being replaced. And, lo and behold, the housing crisis started in the early 90s after a decade of that really began to bite. House prices are ridiculously overinflated and they need to come down, a lot. Council estates may not be brilliant, but new ones can learn the lessons of the old. The problem with relying on private builds is that they're targetted at wealthy middle class families. Council houses are pretty much the *only* houses that are ever built and targeted at the poor nowadays. So-called "affordable homes" are still only targeted at middle class first time buyers. I would like to see new towns built on a scale not seen since the post ww2 reconstruction - because that's how far behind we are when it comes to housing stock. So some new Milton Keynes', Sevenoaks', stuff like that. With a combination of council houses & private houses, and a real plan to finally end the shortage.

Well, if Jezza is floored by Juncker that just makes Hard Brexit more likely - frankly I don't think EU wants to negotiate and that's fine by me. I'd take no deal over a bad deal any day, and as a protectionist who sees all Free Trade deals with a great deal of suspicion, I'm not bothered at all there. Jeremy is part of the Labour brigade that was anti-ECM in the 1970s referendum (when the Tories wanted into Europe and Labour didn't want to join - how times have changed!) and I think that those old views are coming back to the fore now.
over 7 years
over 7 years
Fuq Harry I didn't read anything he said, anyway I'm voting my strong and stable gal Theresa May. xxx
over 7 years
That surprises me. The manifesto seemed too ambitious in my eyes. Regarding housing. In 2012, There was 600k+ empty houses in England alone, with 200k or so being 6 month or so vacancies (https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/live-tables-on-dwelling-stock-including-vacants), why do you feel like building more council homes will contribute positively when we already have empty homes around the country which are unoccupied? Furthermore, the conditions for living in council estates, especially in urban areas, are bleak in most cases. Poor living standards, crime, and a lack of opportunity. Wouldn't money be better spent in improving these communities rather than focusing on expanding? I feel like the attention is misdirected in this regard.

I'm pro Hard Brexit too, and I actually think Jezza will get floored by Juncker. Not much point in discussing that though. I would say people do care about his Republicanism, especially as the country's sovereignty has been harried for the last decade or so, but maybe not so much a concern of the left.

What are your thoughts on the £250bn investment bank for small business? This oozes with socialism, and I don't quite understand where the funding is coming from to support it. Not only that, but if this fails, where will the bailout come from? How will it affect our economy? This is probably one of the most interesting parts about the Labour manifesto for me.
over 7 years
As for May - I'm not so sure it's just that. Labour has had 2 years of almost constant negative publicity; but somehow the party has actually managed to pull together, stop sniping at each other, offer a positive and hopeful manifesto, and get people's attention. That's going to have had a positive effect - I think it's ending the apathy a lot of traditional Labourites had set into - and is the reason behind the recent big swing in favour of Labour in Wales in particular. But without doubt the Conservative campaign has been utterly abysmal. Stuff like the dementia tax, which hits her own voting base hardest, is insane for a Tory candidate to come out with. It seems like the Conservatives took victory completely for granted and have been extremely complacent as a result. Something which I'm sure is going to come back to haunt them - because the chance of a huge Tory majority is pretty much gone now. I still think they'll come out on top, but her majority right now is 12. I'd be surprised if it got much higher than 25 at most. She was looking for 100-150+.

It's ironic, really. May was never pro-Brexit before she became leader - but now Brexit is the only thing that's going to keep her in power.
over 7 years
I voted for him as leader twice. He's far better at campaigning than he is at politicking though, and I don't see him as a long term leader - he's holding the office until some of the young recent lefties get more experience. Someone like Clive Lewis, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Richard Burgon etc.

His platform I agree with, for the most part, and I'm a big fan of the manifesto. It's not as ambitious as I'd like in some places (100k council homes per year is a massive improvement on the ~20k we have now, but ain't going to end the shortage - I'd rather that figure was 200-250k). Baby steps in that regard, though. It's the most left wing manifesto any major party has come out with in Britain for at least 25 years.

The main areas I diverge from the manifesto are Brexit (I'm pro Hard Brexit, and the manifesto seems to lean toward staying in the Common Market, which I'm against). Corbyn's republicanism isn't something I'm for, but it's also not something he prioritises at all and he knows it's something nobody really cares about. Nuclear power I'm in favour of, and I support a nuclear deterrrent - though I'd rather switch to a cheaper land based alternative as opposed to Trident which I think is overkill.
over 7 years
Unfortunately for old May, she's screwing it up any time she opens her mouth. It's amazing to me that Labour are even still in the race. I'm actually astounded. Whilst the Conservative party was largely silent, they were annihilating Labour. She had one job.

What are your thoughts on Corbyn, Mikalis? I can't imagine you being all for him.
over 7 years
I see little point in comparing the NHS to America. Socialised Healthcare is a thing across the vast majority of the western world, so you could pick any European country or even Canada or Australia to get far better ideas.

I see the screwup that is Scottish Labour was mentioned here though. Hopes are not high for Scotland: defending Edinburgh South now looks like it's going to happen; which wasn't so sure in the past. The most recent Scottish poll has seen a bit of a swing back to us - we're up to 25% (behind the Tories on 29% and the SNP on 38%) - but it shows how little optimism we have when our list of target seats in Scotland consists of TWO seats of the 58 we don't have: East Renfrewshire, and Edinburgh North & Leith. Shoots of recovery may happen elsewhere - ideally with us maintaining second place rather than slipping to third party status behind the resurgent Tories and SNP. But regaining Glasgow or the rest of the pro-Indy central belt is a fantasy at the moment.

Wales was looking very dangerous, but since the manifestos came out there's been a 14 point swing in favour of Labour there - putting us back in front and hopefully well onto the offence. But at the end of the day, we aren't going to win this election. The best case scenario is a hung parliament - which, given the obliteration predicted before, would be great. Realistically we might be able to peg May at the same sort of majority she had before - which could cost her her job from internal opposition because the Tories were set for a Blair-style landslide just two months ago, but our campaign has been eons better than theirs. Gives us a lot of hope for the future.
over 7 years

Harrold says

I don't know enough about those countries healthcare services to comment on that last one, but if you make a direct comparison between UK and US; businesses pay for employee healthcare in US in most cases, whilst the government pays for ours. Not only that, but doctors and nurses are making a lot more money over there than they are over here. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with this article simply because I do not understand enough about EU country healthcare overall.


In the US the government pays more per person than any other country. Then we pay on top of that, along with whatever our employers put into it. It's a really crappy system where insurance, hospitals and pharma are double dipping. Obamacare just made it to where insurance companies can complain about pre existing conditions and crank up the cost for everyone that isn't under obamacare.
over 7 years
I don't know enough about those countries healthcare services to comment on that last one, but if you make a direct comparison between UK and US; businesses pay for employee healthcare in US in most cases, whilst the government pays for ours. Not only that, but doctors and nurses are making a lot more money over there than they are over here. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with this article simply because I do not understand enough about EU country healthcare overall.
over 7 years
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/greater-public-investment-is-needed-to-fund-the-nhs-at-a-level-considered-normal-in-other-high-income-countries/

"The UK’s very low level of public spending on health care and its lack of medical resources compared to other high-income countries make a mockery of the notion that we cannot afford to spend more on the NHS. On the contrary, these data suggest that far greater public investment is not only very possible, but also necessary if the NHS is to be funded at a level considered normal in other high income countries."
over 7 years

Harrold says

timebomb


over 7 years
Obviously the fact that that video became about immigration and how it's not the problem with NHS funding, you just know it's going to go flying off into pro remain territory. I might be wrong, but hey. I moved on to the kingsfund link, and whilst I think it's tragic, it does also highlight 'economic uncertainty', meaning we don't know what the future holds, granted it's haunting, we'd still have to wait and see to really know. Furthermore, you have to understand that we have way too many policies that govern our country which we have no control over, because they are decided in Europe. You need to keep this in mind and not focus on the detrimental outcomes. Not only what it is doing to our country though, but what it is doing to the countries which cannot keep up with the Euro and require bailouts and overhauls.

I'll read this demographic timebomb thing now.
over 7 years
i hope corbyn wins and goes like gotcha im an IRA dude, now watch me release northern ireland to the republic ;)
over 7 years

Connor says

i'm fine with that as long as i'm not the one running. i'm just discussing my personal vote choice


All good. I was just being facetious anyway.
over 7 years
over 7 years
Okay so about your video, the point of this was to prove that the NHS isn't costing too much, right?

I'm about half way through, and from what I can see, this is turning into a video about immigration, and not a video about the NHS. However, this does skim over the fact that it costs £200m every 15 hours to fund the NHS. Where is that money coming from? How is it sustainable?

More to the point, of course we are fortunate.