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The State of Sandbox

almost 8 years

For years, this lobby has been stagnant, it has been declining in activity, and it has quickly been losing interest for those of us who have been here for a couple of years. The ownership of the lobby being passed around like a game of hot potato to me was unacceptable and therefore I decided to create a plan to change the lobby and make it a better and safer experience for those of us here. I was made aware that I was the heir to the throne long ago and ever since then, I began to work on some of these ideas. I have been observing the lobby for years and participating when necessary so that I could bring you, the people, the necessary changes that you need.

To begin,

I did not intend to rule alone or with just the moderators I choose, I was not interested in a clique ruling the lobby like we are going to have with an owner like Merlot and like we had with Bebop. This secretive clique may be great for those who Merlot and Bebop are looking out for (themselves, other site moderators), but it is not good for the people. I intended to rule with transparency -- true transparency. I wanted the people of Sandbox to help make decisions and I intended to start up open forums to hear what you had to say on issues such as what the role of the lobby moderator should be since they do not do much (I will talk about this more later on in this thread) and if the moderators and I could not come to a decision about what to do with controversial issues like certain users posting content in the lobby chat, then we'd create an open forum allowing the people to have their say on the issue.

The role of the moderators would drastically change, making them more useful within the lobby as I have seen many people say that moderators just aren't needed in Sandbox, here are the descriptions of the roles that I created with the help of some of my friends which were set to be included in the moderator applications yesterday before the lobby was stolen from me:

Position: Forum Moderator Description: The forum moderator is the peace keeper of the forums. Their responsibilities include sticking the most relevant threads to the lobby wall, moving topics to their appropriate location, judging and enforcing rules violations in forums, and creating topics of interest. You should apply if: You are a very active user. You enjoy reading TheLastProphet’s and MeetTerry’s posts. You are organized.

Position: Games Moderator Description: The Games Moderator will have several responsibilities all of which include keeping the community having fun. The Games mod will be in charge of choosing the stickied setups, hosting setups and introducing new ones, hosting forum games or alternative games outside of sandbox or promoting games others are hosting. You should apply if: You are a very active user. You are creative. You are a good host. You enjoy the mafia based aspect of this mafia simulator site.

Position: Enforcer Moderator Description: The Enforcer Moderator will be the strong arm of the law. They must enforce the rules and will make no leeway for personal relationships. While all mods enforce the rules, the Enforcer Mod will be the primary mod to handle violations, give out punishment, police the lobby wall and lobby chat, and serve anyone who feels their experience in sandbox is being affected by other users. You should apply if: You are a very active user. You consider yourself tempered and level-headed. You are neither an SJW nor a racist. You’re not going to go on a banning spree.

Position: Community Moderator Description: The Community Mod will come up with the lobby announcements. They can keep the community up to date with events users are hosting such as: plugdj, discord, jackbox and movie nights. They will also lead design based aspects of sandbox including choosing the lobby banner, the lobby background, and the lobby polls. You should apply if: You are a very active user. You don’t need to be an artist but should have artistic taste. You communicate well with others and are up to date on social happenings.

We would put great empashize on having more community-orientented games like Dooze's Sandbox Assassin and Amelio's Sandbox Big Brother, SupBros' large games, or Plissken's unique events. We would create a fun lobby where we constantly have events being run and promote these events well rather than leaving the lobby stagnant as I talked about earlier and just having the same setup being hosted every single day.

I had great interest in running a lobby with an enforced set of rules, yet lenient when it needs to be. I had great interest I running the lobby with a policy in which everyone can play in Sandbox, but those who constantly interfere with the functioning of the lobby will be barred from playing here, a fair chance policy. This policy would also state that the moderators and even the owner themselves could not hold grudges and act due to that fact and this would include a fair chance when choosing moderators as well. With the fair chance policy, the moderators must live up to the rule as well and will be held to the highest of standards. In the event we had a moderator abusing their powers like error did, they would be removed from their position because of their interference with the functioning of the lobby. The main rules I believe need to be enforced are those that protect the people from legitimately feeling unsafe within the lobby. The people doxing users, threatening to reveal someone's personal information, and effectively chasing out our active userbase should not be allowed in this lobby -- and Bebop & friends are no stranger to doing this.

http://i.imgur.com/EmBybqe.png Bebop on who he thought the next Sandbox owner would be

http://i.imgur.com/XCsxx5M.png As we know, Bebop and his friends are no strangers to doxing users and threatening to reveal their personal information, this whatever it takes attitude is very telling.

http://i.imgur.com/pIHybZb.png He is not interested in working with the two moderators that have actually been beneficial to this lobby in recent memory. We can easily assume the hivemind believes the same.

I applied to be a moderator of this lobby under other owners in the past and have included my desire to be apart of a team with conflicting opinions in the application, and I have that same wish today and I wish to have people argue against me during these open forum discussions and I wish for people to play devil's advocate and I want to come to the best decisions possible as a result of this. I think it is crucial that everyone feels as though they can speak their true mind instead of feeling like they'll be punished for saying something the owner disagrees with like the moderators felt during Bebop's reign. I may not always make the best executive decision, but if someone can win a debate about something I did, then I think it is very telling that I made the wrong decision because if I was right, I should be able to defend myself and my decision. When Bebop made the many poor decisions he made during his reigns and the community argued against him, he resorted to arguing using jokes and memes to avoid having to actually argue and defend his decision -- this was one of the things I could not stand to do as owner as it is cowardly and it is not for the good of the people.

I was not interested in being pushed around by the site moderators (this is why they removed me, they knew I would not bow down to them) because these same site moderators are the same people that do nothing and in fact, support the doxing, threatening, and chasing away of our people from Sandbox. We needed someone to stand up to these people and I do believe we still need that. No one should fear for their safety on a mafia simulator site, this site should be to have fun, but it is most definitely not fun to have your personal information taken from you and it is not fun to be threatened with it.

I was the owner of this lobby and I was going to make it a great environment for all of us, but the fact is that it wasn't stolen from me -- it was stolen from all of you. During Bebop's reign, I was very much against the shady things Bebop & his friends were doing and fought to expose them and I did so, these people are not looking out for anyone but themselves and those who are in their hivemind. Edark removed me from the owner position because of many things including me openly stating that I do not feel as though he is fit to be an administrator ad he knew he could not control me or intimidate me. Edark did not come to me to ask me what my plans were or what my stance on any controversial issues were like that of the hateful comments rule that he asked baaabaa about when she was the interm owner -- he just removed me. Now the lobby is under the control of someone who has supported doxing users, threatening to reveal their personal information, and then chasing these same users out of the lobby out of fear -- and I just do not find this acceptable. If the people do not believe me to be the right fit to become owner once more, then I am formally giving my support to lobby moderator Dooze as I know she will implement these ideas and many others in order to protect all of you from people like Bebop, Edark, and friends.

Thank you, Jamal Marley

almost 8 years

Edark says


MrMongrel says

Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.


You can nitpick many things I've done and received community backlash that has gone sour, but most of the times it turns out for the better.

You're more than welcome to present and back up those claims of doxxing tho.


I myself said I wasn't aware of the accuracy of the claims, and despite that everything else I said about Merlot as owner stands as fact.

You don't need to get defensive, I'm telling you maybe its worthwhile to work with the community.

Are you telling me here and now you're not interested in doing that?
deletedalmost 8 years
for what it's worth, it's pretty apparent that you simply can't please everyone and no matter who winds up as owner someone will be complaining

good luck Edark

almost 8 years

Edark says


MrMongrel says

Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.


You can nitpick many things I've done and received community backlash that has gone sour, but most of the times nothing bad happends.

You're more than welcome to present and back up those claims of doxxing tho.


What is the issue with making dooze the owner? Why do you believe Merlot is a better option?

Every good thing you can say about Merlot being the owner can be said about Dooze being the owner but with Dooze, there's no downsides and the people actually want her as the owner.
almost 8 years

Kaworu says

can someone else explain to bebop that this website isn't a skype group


you understand you're talking on the forums right now, as we speak? there is more to epicmafia than playing games
almost 8 years

MrMongrel says

Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.


You can nitpick many things I've done and received community backlash that has gone sour, but most of the times it turns out for the better.

You're more than welcome to present and back up those claims of doxxing tho.
almost 8 years
bring kenny back from the dead tbh
almost 8 years
chris was a fantastic owner
deletedalmost 8 years
who else remember 2014 when this never happened and chris being owner was satisfactory
deletedalmost 8 years
can someone else explain to bebop that this website isn't a skype group
almost 8 years

collokey says

HAHA QUICK DEFLECT TO SOME MEMES

deletedalmost 8 years
almost 8 years

MrMongrel says

Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.

almost 8 years

Bebop says


MrMongrel says

doxxing and threatening players she and her clique don't like. I'm not aware of how accurate that last claim is, but its pretty damning if thats the case.


it's not the case at all and it's fairly misleading to present it in the way that people have, she made some distasteful jokes towards golbolco and i'm not excusing that, but saying that she's involved with "doxing people her clique don't like" is simply false. she hasn't doxed anyone and nor have i.


Tbh I think we should start a separate thread to discuss these allegations.
almost 8 years

Kaworu says


Bebop says


Kaworu says


Bebop says


Kaworu says

also didn't merlot make a thread not to long ago saying she was leaving and that she hates sandbox


someone leaving sandbox then coming back?
absolutely unheard of


i doubt it means she even cares about this lobby. neither do you buddy. neither of you play in the games why are you even here


there is a whole other side of the community that are here to talk to one another and participate in the forums, games aren't the only thing on epicmafia so there will always be people who don't play them. i played sandbox games for about 2 years straight and don't find them fun anymore. there's literally nothing wrong with that. i'm still here because i talk to members of the community and interact with my friends on the forums. if you think i don't care about sandbox you're sadly mistaken - why else would i come here?


are you talking about your glorified cliquey chat group made of like 20 people and their alts, that restricts new users from entering and enjoying sandbox because mods focus on you all the time? you just described your circlejerk


i honestly have no idea why you're still responding at this point, there is a large contigent in sandbox that doesn't play games and there's no "cliquey chat group made of like 20 people and their alts" that exists. i really have no idea what you're talking about at this point and it just seems silly. some people play games, some people don't. that's just epicmafia.
almost 8 years

MrMongrel says

doxxing and threatening players she and her clique don't like. I'm not aware of how accurate that last claim is, but its pretty damning if thats the case.


it's not the case at all and it's fairly misleading to present it in the way that people have, she made some distasteful jokes towards golbolco and i'm not excusing that, but saying that she's involved with "doxing people her clique don't like" is simply false. she hasn't doxed anyone and nor have i.
almost 8 years
Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.
deletedalmost 8 years

Bebop says


Kaworu says


Bebop says


Kaworu says

also didn't merlot make a thread not to long ago saying she was leaving and that she hates sandbox


someone leaving sandbox then coming back?
absolutely unheard of


i doubt it means she even cares about this lobby. neither do you buddy. neither of you play in the games why are you even here


there is a whole other side of the community that are here to talk to one another and participate in the forums, games aren't the only thing on epicmafia so there will always be people who don't play them. i played sandbox games for about 2 years straight and don't find them fun anymore. there's literally nothing wrong with that. i'm still here because i talk to members of the community and interact with my friends on the forums. if you think i don't care about sandbox you're sadly mistaken - why else would i come here?


are you talking about your glorified cliquey chat group made of like 20 people and their alts, that restricts new users from entering and enjoying sandbox because mods focus on you all the time? you just described your circlejerk
almost 8 years

Edark says


MrMongrel says


Edark says

The options you guys have is either to convince an admin/lucid to change the ownership or ask winnie to change it herself.


Are you interested in potentially helping us with that? You'd have more say with Lucid than some random players shooting him angry e-mails.


I've yet to see any evidence of why she would be unfit, other than people not really being fond of her.


Despite this being enough reason in my mind, she's inactive, has expressed disdain for the community, and is the subject of being part in doxxing and threatening players she and her clique don't like. I'm not aware of how accurate that last claim is, but its pretty damning if thats the case.
almost 8 years

Edark says


MrMongrel says


Edark says

The options you guys have is either to convince an admin/lucid to change the ownership or ask winnie to change it herself.


Are you interested in potentially helping us with that? You'd have more say with Lucid than some random players shooting him angry e-mails.


I've yet to see any evidence of why she would be unfit, other than people not really being fond of her.


Aside from her association people who dox and threaten users out of the lobby (who she will do nothing to stop), the people do not want her as the owner. Do you not think that it is in the lobby's best interest to have an owner they actually want in that position? That may not be me and that certainly isn't Merlot, but I had seen overwhelming support for dooze and no evidence of why SHE is unfit.
almost 8 years

Edark says


MrMongrel says


Edark says

The options you guys have is either to convince an admin/lucid to change the ownership or ask winnie to change it herself.


Are you interested in potentially helping us with that? You'd have more say with Lucid than some random players shooting him angry e-mails.


I've yet to see any evidence of why she would be unfit, other than people not really being fond of her.


She's not active in sandbox? I think that's enough. A person should be in touch with their community, and she isn't. Smh.
almost 8 years
I am beginning to understand why we lack decent moderation. I don't understand why you insist on being stubborn about working with the community that is asking you for help, edark.
almost 8 years

Kaworu says


Bebop says


Kaworu says

also didn't merlot make a thread not to long ago saying she was leaving and that she hates sandbox


someone leaving sandbox then coming back?
absolutely unheard of


i doubt it means she even cares about this lobby. neither do you buddy. neither of you play in the games why are you even here


there is a whole other side of the community that are here to talk to one another and participate in the forums, games aren't the only thing on epicmafia so there will always be people who don't play them. i played sandbox games for about 2 years straight and don't find them fun anymore. there's literally nothing wrong with that. i'm still here because i talk to members of the community and interact with my friends on the forums. if you think i don't care about sandbox you're sadly mistaken - why else would i come here?
almost 8 years

MrMongrel says


Edark says

The options you guys have is either to convince an admin/lucid to change the ownership or ask winnie to change it herself.


Are you interested in potentially helping us with that? You'd have more say with Lucid than some random players shooting him angry e-mails.


I've yet to see any evidence of why she would be unfit, other than people not really being fond of her.
deletedalmost 8 years

Edark says

The options you guys have is either to convince an admin/lucid to change the ownership or ask winnie to change it herself.


So you interfere in sandbox when you feel ownership hasn't been passed correctly. But when you get us all to agree and see that perhaps it hasn't, and needs interference from an administrator, you no longer feel the need to interfere? Do I have that right?
deletedalmost 8 years

MrMongrel says


Edark says

The options you guys have is either to convince an admin/lucid to change the ownership or ask winnie to change it herself.


Are you interested in potentially helping us with that? You'd have more say with Lucid than some random players shooting him angry e-mails.